Chris –
All right. Well, I am. I’m here with someone that I have been wanting to do this with for probably over a year. And she’s a mother of two boys, a wife, a daughter, a sister, an aunt, and a friend to so many people. And she just, in my opinion, came out of nowhere and has infiltrated my feeds with so much insightful, good content.

Chris –
She’s an inspirational leader. She’s an insightful leader. She’s a speaker. She’s a prolific content creator with a massive Instagram following. She’s a graduate of the University of Nevada in Reno. She’s an industry leader. She’s an award-winning mortgage advisor and a top producer at her company for the years 2020 and 2021. And so far this year, she is still top producing amazing work.

Chris –
She’s also quite a fashionista and is rocking cool outfits on every stage that she’s on. My friend Shivani Petersen And if you’re following her on IG, it’s Shiv. Peter So Shivani, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Shivani –
Thank you for that intro. I think it’s the best one I’ve ever gotten.

Chris –
Yes, well, you’ve earned every bit of it, you know, like it was like just looking you up and looking up to you in the industry has been so fun to watch this transformation. You know, the reason that I asked you, and you and I talked a little bit about this yesterday, but when you and I met, it was at an event that the Ford event back in 2021.

Chris –
And I remember looking at everybody that was either on stage or in the audience. And you’re kind of mysterious. You were standing in the back. And I remember thinking, because I just started seeing your content and I was like, I want to meet her, and I want to just like, I can’t wait to see what she’s going to be doing.

Chris –
And so I went up to you and introduced myself, and I just knew that I needed to figure out a way, to collaborate with you. And it’s been two years or a year and a half since we finally were able to get that done. And so I try to fly you in to do this because I think that this is going to be a powerful day.

Chris –
But I just have no idea how much I appreciate you being here today.

Shivani –
I’m excited to do this. And I remember meeting you at that first forward. I was pregnant and tried not to vomit while standing in the back.

Chris –
That’s the see, I took it as mysterious.

Shivani –
And now it’s just nausea. I have every pregnancy I get. So I’ve been pregnant three times. I have three kids now.

Chris –
Three kids. See, she just has three kids, bro. The good.

Shivani –
The first time I was only sick for like the first trimester, the second time, 20 weeks with my daughter. I puked every day. Yeah, for nine months. Would you do anything if they told you you’re going to have the stomach flu for nine months now, you’d say, fuck that.

Chris –
Nothing wouldn’t do it. Yeah, but you know, you can’t. You can’t make those decisions. You know, it just happens. It’s never a good time. Right. And so this is actually a really good segue way because well, let me kind of set the stage here that one of the reasons that the biggest reason that I wanted to meet with you is I started this Breakthrough series, and the Breakthrough Series is a series of podcasts that are really dedicated to the coming up in the industry and the struggle that it takes to get to where you’re at.

Chris –
But more importantly, I started to notice three years ago it’s been longer than that, but I think I started to take action three years ago around this as I started looking at top performers in the industry and companies would post like this picture of top performers and I and they always kind of look like the same individual.

Chris –
And I started to realize, like, that’s not really what our communities look like. And I started to just really figure out, like, what can I do to really change this? Because when I looked at all of the leaders in the mortgage, like all of the top leaders, there are very few women and they are very few people of color. And I felt like, you know, there’s got to change that has to happen for us to really make a difference in the communities that we’re serving.

Chris –
And I wanted to be a part of it and I wanted to make a change. So I started to engage and understand who those individuals were in the communities and the loan officers, and found that many of them weren’t getting their voice heard, and didn’t know how to get their voice heard. And then you meet people like you who are extremely vocal, who have this insane amount of confidence when you speak.

Chris –
And the way that I knew that is when I started to see your personality coming out of your content, your cussing, which you don’t see very often, especially somebody you know in a highly regulated industry is ours, like putting out content where you weren’t like thinking about, well, I was my corporate is my compliance going to care? You know, as you said, they did well, you know, but you still did it.

Chris –
And I think that’s really where I started to see your voice. And so I said to myself, that probably didn’t start there. And you and I had a conversation in Vegas where you said something along the lines of, you know what? The coolest thing about doing what I’m doing is that I get to pick who I work with now.

Chris –
Yeah. And, and I said, okay, that like all those little things came up. And then when I heard your speech, which was an amazing speech, you said something also that hit me and that was you were is a mom and you just said it. Now we’re sick for like nine months. And you still were the top producer at your company.

Chris –
So I want it like that’s that, you know, that we’re going to unpack all of that today. But those are all the reasons why you are you know, this is why we wanted you on the podcast because you have just blown me away with everything that you’re doing. So where did it all start? I mean, I know that you were in a salon at some point and working at a small business and then you transitioned into the mortgage.

Chris –
And what was that like? What was that journey like, if you don’t mind sharing it with me?

Shivani –
So I went to school to do broadcast journalism. Okay? I wanted to be my dream was to be an investigative reporter. And so I had a background there. But I graduated during the Great Recession. It was 2009 and journalism wasn’t like a job that you couldn’t get into at that time, but the pay was horrendous. And I was managing a salon at the time.

Shivani –
I had started there my senior year of high school, and just worked my way up and the ownership was splitting. And because of a non-compete, the people who recruited me were going to have to leave town. So they were just going to let me open a business on their dime, like choose the branding, hire the people, design the inside.

Shivani –
Because we did a full remodel and they were like, You can just do it because we have to go. We have to leave town. So for two years I did that and it was cool, but I didn’t want to go to beauty school because wet hair freaks me out. It’s like I can’t handle it. And then.

Chris –
Even your own.

Shivani –
Just in general, I can’t handle it.

Shivani –
It’s disgusting. And then I didn’t want to own a salon because salons and restaurants are the most failed businesses. So I find that I felt like I was like at the max where I was going to be in that job. And it’s not that I didn’t try to use my degree too. I would have taken the pay cut, but I sucked I sent my resume out for a year to everyone and no bites.

Shivani –
Nobody even called.

Chris –
You. Have you posted this? This tape? Can we see it?

Shivani –
Oh, God, I should.

Chris –
Look good. Like where you throw.

Shivani –
That like, I was so.

Chris –
Mad and you had to get in the mortgage in order to be the best at journalism. Like, at this.

Shivani –
The point is to get good at video, it’s crazy. I had to talk about mortgages, but my brothers were lending. So they had been in lending and they had started during the boom and then they had gone through the crash and it was coming up on a time. Then it was like 2012 when it was FHA streamlined refinances all day.

Shivani –
Like Neil would send out a mailer and then the phones are just blown up and you do FHA three months and they needed help. So they were like, just come do this with us for a little while. And they always say that success is a very dangerous thing because the mix of money and praise can lock you in forever.

Shivani –
And that’s exactly how I got where I am. I got I started doing FHA streamlines and got locked in.

Chris –
What year is this?

Shivani –
2012.

Chris –

2012. So that’s yeah, that’s ten years ago and you’re doing FHA. So business is falling out of the sky. So for the next ten years, you’re having kids, you’re in the industry, you’re learning, you know, the business. What was there ever a struggle or was it always just kind of taking up going, Oh, no.

Shivani –
So f I think I went to following the FHA streamline thing. I went through, what, a lot of people in our industry are going through now. So I thought I was good because I made a bunch of money and I was amazed.

Chris –
Amazing loans. Yeah, we were geniuses.

Shivani –
But it turns out I wasn’t anything. Interest rates were really good. So then interest rates went up like two points in two weeks. I don’t know if you remember this, but it was really painful. And FHA was done. They doubled the premium they like. It was done right. And then I realized it wasn’t me at all.

Shivani –
It was market conditions. Then I started having kids too. So the market was up and down. I started having babies and I was not 100% focused anymore. So fast forward a little while. It’s time to like start rebuilding a business because I want to be a top producer again. I had been a top producer and I didn’t like being anybody, but I didn’t really want to do it like cold calling people because I hate getting shit on.

Shivani –
By realtors, they mean that nothing will make you feel like your college degree was a waste of money so fast as a realtor who maybe didn’t even graduate high school acting like they’re better than you.

Chris –
Well, it’s, like, really hot on this is good. This is so good because we got to talk about this a little bit. What was the worst of it in your opinion, like when was the breaking point of somebody doing this in such a rude way? And how did you feel about it? Because we’ve done I mean, realtors will they will figure out a way to make you feel this small.

Chris –
Yes. And I don’t know why we allow it, but we let them do this. And, you know, not everybody I mean, there are amazing realtors out there, but there have been moments where we would call and try to prospect. And they were just like, how much money are you willing to write for me? And, you know, our value is tied into a check.

Chris –
And I’m sure you know, for you, you had it in so many ways. So talk a little bit about that. I’m curious.

Shivani –
So one thing we have to know about me is that I don’t have imposter syndrome. I’ve always thought I’m pretty cool. Like I’ve never felt like I don’t deserve the stage or deserve to make or deserve the opportunity. I feel like I do like I’m rising to the occasion. I feel like I want to be there. I deserve to be there.

Shivani –
And I have something worth saying. So when you’re calling a realtor, they won’t even give you the coffee date. I’m like, Who the fuck are you? Like, What made you and your time so much more important than mine?

Chris –
Yes.

Shivani –
But also, like, I can understand that they’re getting hit up by a bunch of lenders all the time who also has a very low entry level. Like there are a lot of lenders out there who I wouldn’t want to go to coffee with. There’s no way I could spend a whole lunch with them. So I understand their point of view too.

Shivani –
And I just felt confident I had something of value that would help them with their business. So why won’t they give me 15 minutes to talk to them about it? So that’s when I started doing content. And you were asking me, you were like, when do you think that like, you know, because obviously the content I started doing it a lot, but there was a moment where all of a sudden it went fast like it’s going this.

Shivani –
So I don’t think that it was that I changed. I think I just got louder. It was the same content that I was putting out and you get better with practice. So, anybody who’s out there saying that they don’t want to be on camera or they don’t want to do content, they don’t want to be judged, all you need to do today to make your decision is to go to the beginning of my Instagram feed because those videos are trash.

Shivani –
They were so bad and they live out there forever. But I got to practice and I got better at getting my message across. Like, how do I get people’s attention? I started learning the tricks of how you capture someone’s attention on social media so that then I can share my message that’s valuable. I’ll play the game. I’ll have a gimmicky hook so that I can get you to stop scrolling.

Shivani –
Once I have your attention, I’m going to teach you something. It’s not going to be a waste of your time. So I think I just got better at getting that message out. My beginning videos, were like just as sarcastic, just as, like, authentically me. It’s just I wasn’t as good at producing videos.

Chris –
It’s so good. So when do you remember the turning moment of going viral? Do you remember which video that was? And like what?

Shivani –
Because I only just went viral.

Chris –
I know the thing that’s.

Shivani –
Always kills people when they find out because they’re like, How did social media transform your business when you have 3000 followers? And I’m like, because I, I, I’m, I’m not trying to be an Instagram influencer. I am trying to grow my business and promote my business on social media. It’s never been my desire to be an influencer. I don’t care if I go viral, but I can tell you when I put up a video, if it gets 500 views, that’s like I called and reminded 500 people that I can help them with real estate.

Shivani –
Today, I don’t have the time to do that. The videos are way more efficient. So for the first three years that I did content, I didn’t like it, I haven’t been viral. And then this year I posted a video very recently that went viral and all of a sudden everything’s like blown up. But I don’t know. It’ll be interesting to watch.

Shivani –
Like, do I get more quality leads? Is the quality of my community going to change? Because it was amazing before when it was small.

Chris –
So so talk to me. This is amazing. But talk to me about your strategy. And in terms of like you said earlier, like, I’ll play the game. Like, I know that there are some tricks here. What was what are the tricks like? If I’m somebody who sucks at producing content or I want to get better at it and you know, we’re watching you and watching what you’ve done and getting you what you’ve done nicely is you put your personality into helping people and it’s attractive and therefore now starting to go viral.

Chris –
What are those tricks that you would recommend?

Shivani –
So there are basic things you need to do, as this goes beyond video into like life advice. But so growing up in Reno, our parents came here, and our parents came to California when my dad was getting his master’s from India. And then they lived in Alaska. That’s where Neil was born. And then down to Reno, because my dad was the vice president of the university here for a long time.

Shivani –
But we were like one of the only very few brown people in this town. And my mom would like she won’t leave the house without being fully dressed, hair done, lipstick on. And she always told me, if you look nice, people treat you nice. And so I would say, don’t show it on your video. Look like you fell out of a tree.

Shivani –
Look nice, and have nice lighting. Have a nice background. Basic, just basic. I don’t think you need to get your hair and makeup done to do this. I think you should look like yourself because people want people who engage with their social media when they meet you in person. They want to meet the same person. So absolutely look like yourself, but look like a nice version of yourself.

Shivani –
I like the nicer one, not the one who is hungover on Sunday, but that’s why I want to look esthetically pleasing because it’s an aesthetic platform. And then too, you only have a few seconds. There’s so much digital pollution out there of people wasting people’s time on social media. So the average consumer has gotten tough to that and they’re not going to give you a very long you’ve got like 3 to 5 seconds to get their attention if you’re putting out a video.

Shivani –
So in that 3 to 5 seconds, say something to get their attention.

Chris –
And that’s the hook.

Shivani –
That’s the hook.

Chris –
How do you come up with your hooks?

Shivani –
I’ll just be driving like now you’ll once you start doing this, you’ll be having a conversation with, like my team or with a client or with my brothers. And I’ll think of something, and then I just put it in my notes or record a quick voicemail for it.

Chris –
Okay. So you have notes in your cell phone and you’re just jotting down do you jot down? And it’s probably a little bit of both. But I’m thinking about this because I think about my process, but I jot down an idea like I can’t think of one right now, but I know what I jotted down an idea, let’s do this, actually.

Chris –
So I jotted down an idea this morning about feeling guilty for taking a vacation. Okay. A lot of people feel that vacation guilt, especially right now. And loan officers have it because I’m sure you were there where you were like, if I don’t answer my phone, they’re going to go to another lender. And me, I’m like, If I don’t answer Milo’s phone, they’re going to quit me and go to another lender, right?

Chris –
Like they’re going to go to another company. And then I was like, But, but I’m shit if I don’t have time off and, and so I was like, I got to figure out a way to kind of play with that idea. So I opened my phone and I just write down vacation guilt and then like, is that how your process works?

Chris –
Or do you come up with the hook first and then come up with the idea? Or is it a comedy?

Shivani –
It’s evolved because I used to have the idea and then just write the whole script. And I wasn’t worried about having a good hook and I was very late to the game. I’m starting to have a good hook. And then I realized like, this is what I learned in school about writing headlines like, it’s the same thing, right?

Chris –
Something, right? Yeah.

Shivani –
That gets people’s attention. So now I actually both I’ll have the idea and put the idea on my phone and then later on I’m trying to come up with a good hook. But a lot of times now I think in terms of a hook.

Chris –
And.

Shivani –
Terms and I put some quality behind it.

Chris –
It’s a new language. And I think what, what like for me and, and I’ll share this but I think a lot of loan officers what you have done differently than me. Right, I wanted to I approached this wanting to be known in the industry. In the industry. I wanted to be known in the industry. So that was my idea.

Chris –
Where you wanted to be known as was to the consumer and to the millennial, and you had an avatar and, you know, you didn’t pigeonhole yourself. And I want to just help people in Reno find a house. Yeah. Wanted to inspire people that were interested in all facets of, you know, financing or buying a home or whatever the case is.

Chris –
Right? So if I could do it differently, I would have brought in my message. And it’s something that I still work with. But what’s your advice on that? I mean, who is your true avatar?

Shivani –
I think you have to spend some time thinking about this because a lot of people just start putting out content to sell something or to promote themself. But I had a goal of trying to create this community where people like if you think about, well, this might be hard for you to think about because you’re not a woman, but being a mom got so much better when people started being honest about it.

Shivani –
So our parent’s generation moms are very alone and like alone in their struggle and alone with how hard it was because people didn’t talk about it. But now, like all over social media, you hear moms sharing how hard their day was. Or if you yelled at your kids today, you’re one of many who are like this. There’s so much authentic content out there about how hard it is to be a mom and how lonely it can be and all the different struggles, whether you’re working, mom, stay at home, mom does a combination of both.

Shivani –
It’s there’s a lot of community around this now and it’s talked about a lot. And I was thinking when am like how much better would money be if people talked about it like that? Like we could change it, we could make it more accessible. We could make people access to better information. Like there’s always the generic person on social media out there saying, I want to teach you the stuff about finance you didn’t learn in school, but I mean, like, let’s go deeper than that.

Shivani –
I mean, what were you going to learn in school as a high schooler? Like what in college, like would you have grasped? It’s not that I want to teach people what they didn’t learn in school. I just want to open up the conversation about it so that we can all share what’s working with us for us now, and so that we can feel less alone and less like there’s something wrong with me if I’m not succeeding.

Shivani –
You just need more information. You just need to try something else. You just need better ideas.

Chris –
So. So then, you know, go back to that because there’s something that, you know, one of the biggest reasons that I love this, this series on the podcast is because I get to meet people who have truly broken through and you broke through. I mean, there was a moment of your time, of your career where you realized this wasn’t me being amazing.

Chris –
It was the market being amazing. And how do I outsmart the market through marketing? Right. And so but you also have a couple of things that are different than the majority of the people in our business. One, you’re a female, I’d say three or you know, one, you’re a female in the prime of your business. You were having children, which is very disruptive to your day-to-day work life.

Chris –
And then three, you said it. We were brown. Not a lot of people look like us. So tell me a little bit about that. Like, how did you come up with that? And is that even something you think about when you wake up? Because of growing up and growing up in business, I never thought about it ever. Like it wasn’t even something that came to mind until someone kind of opened my eyes about it and then it all kind of came into focus and I started realizing certain things.

Chris –
And I’ll give you a couple of examples. And, you know, I started realizing that I would be I used to be the youngest person in like the boardroom. I’m not anymore, but I used to be. And we would be in these executive meetings. And I look around and I always I actually, unlike you felt imposter syndrome. Everybody had college degrees.

Chris –
I graduated from high school. Like, I always felt like I didn’t belong there. So I, I kind of based it off that. But I would say something and no one would acknowledge it. It would just be like nobody said it. And then somebody, later on, would bring up what I just said and use it as her own and get credit for the idea sucks.

Chris –
And I was like, This is so weird. But somebody said This is something that happens. It happens to women all the time. It happens to people of color all the time. And it’s not necessarily a conscious thing. It’s just something that happens subconsciously to people. And you got to and the class that I was taking was a diversity class and they were saying, But this is how you overcome that.

Chris –
And you said it without realizing it, you just got louder. And that was from a content perspective. But I also think that a lot of times people in diverse cultures tend to lose their voice because they don’t they’re not given the safety net to say it’s okay to get louder. And so tell me a little bit about that.

Chris –
I mean, in your philosophy around and your thought process around those things coming up in the industry.

Shivani –
It’s really weird because I find myself being hypocritical because I have never felt like I’m disadvantaged because I’m female or I’m disadvantaged because I’m brown. But at the same time, I’m very dedicated to helping women and my team is all women. My community online is very female-focused. I’m very much a feminist, but I’ve never felt like an opportunity was harder for me than somebody else.

Shivani –
Because I’m a woman, I’ve always felt like I can work hard enough to overcome that, or I can be loud enough to overcome that. I can get out of somebody’s way, right, or make them get out of mine. But on the other hand, like, I don’t, I guess I, I, I will call people out like, so I don’t think that people do it consciously.

Shivani –
I think you’re right. They don’t. But I want to point it out to them so they don’t keep doing it. And I do it too sometimes. Like, so an example recently is that someone locally, a realtor I work very closely with was having Neil speak to her group about something. And then she kept calling me and asking me, he needs to send this, can you get me his invoice?

Shivani –
And I was like, Yo, would you be asking our June to get this stuff for you? And she’s like, What do you mean? I’m like, I’m not his secretary. Peter Nancy, you try him or his assistant.

Chris –
Yeah.

Shivani –
I love that. She’s like, Oh, shit, you’re right. I’m sorry I wouldn’t ask her to do that. And I was like, Not now you’re aware.

Chris –
And I feel like you can do that from female to female. I almost feel like it’s almost like, oh my gosh, you know, but it could happen. And first off, for the listeners that don’t know, this is Shivani, and maybe you should explain to Shivani, but you came up with your brothers who are also very well-known in the mortgage industry.

Chris –
And I know that there’s going to be listeners who don’t know them, you know, and they’re now getting introduced to you. And so, you know, it’s Neil Dhingra and Arjun Dhingra and Shivani are married. So her last name is Peterson. But, you know, obviously maiden name is Dhingra, but they’re all three. Do you guys work together as a team or how does that work?

Chris –
I’ve never really understood that.

Shivani –
Yeah. So Neil’s our branch manager, Virgin’s our sales manager, and I’m a loan officer here.

Chris –
Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, that makes sense. And so going back to what we were saying, you know, you have to but let me go back to because you said I may sound hypocritical on this, but you do find yourself really engaging with your community because of that. Now, why do you think that is? Like, why do you see that?

Chris –
That’s the opportunity.

Shivani –
I just think that like growing up, I was treated very differently than our junior Neil. Our parents are very traditional Indian people. I mean, they got less traditional the longer they were in the States. But, you know, we’d all be watching cartoons and mom and dad would say, Shivani, go set the table and I’m like looking at a genius and they’re doing nothing.

Shivani –
I’m like, Well, they set the table. Yeah, but ever since I was a kid, I would ask that question. I’m like, Why don’t they have to? And my parents would say Because you’re a girl. So I would just think about this stuff all the time. My curfew when I was 18 was ten. I had to go to prom for one hour.

Shivani –
The dance started at nine. I had to be home at ten. I was like, What is this? Virginia Neil didn’t even have a curfew. And my parents in Shameless, they were like your girl Shameless. It just didn’t feel bad. They didn’t feel sexist. To this day. They’re like, We did the right thing. You turned out fine.

Chris –
Unapologetic. I love it. No. So because you these are going to this does this flow into your world considering, you know, you have two boys and now a girl? What happens? What are the chances that this happens to you?

Shivani –
I manifest it as I wanted it so badly. I talked about it. I put it out into the universe. Like people always say to me, you made this happen. If anyone questions the power of you making things happen, you control something you have zero control over and made it happen.

Chris –
Yes.

Shivani –
But then I think that always being told because you’re a girl led me to want to create a community around women. And then just by chance, I mean I go to college, I join a sorority and I’m president of the sorority. But my senior year, all women, right? The whole time I’m working in the salon industry, all women.

Shivani –
So I’ve always just gravitated to these situations where it’s all women.

Chris –
But you’re in an industry that’s very male-dominated. I mean, it truly is. I mean, I think there are maybe like maybe 2 to 3 execs who are female, like.

Shivani –
But you could see why, because you said, you know, like it’s hard to have children, it’s disruptive to your career. So I think that a lot of women kind of back out of like climbing the ranks and moving up in sales because doing well at sales is time-consuming. You do have to be available and we’re a commodity.

Shivani –
I mean, a lot if I don’t answer my phone, I do believe they’ll find another lender no matter how good I am.

Chris –
Exactly. That’s true. Okay, so like, let’s shift gears because you said something that reminded me of. I don’t know how I want to say this.

Shivani –
Just say it out loud.

Chris –
It’s not about you. It’s more that I don’t want to offend the person. I’m about to say it. But like so. So you said something that resonated with me that I, I was it made me rethink some things and it with my wife because she an investor. She’s working every day, but she’s also not in a 9 to 5 job because she has our kids.

Chris –
Right. And so a lot of times a lot of our conversations are around scaling the business, like don’t get caught up in that. Get an assistant, get somebody to do that for you. So that you can just be in investing mode. Don’t get caught up in customer service type stuff and the Airbnbs, that sort of thing, right? And she’s just a badass like she handles everything.

Chris –
And so you had said something on stage that reminded me of her because you said in this weird sick way that I felt like I had to do it all.

Shivani –
I like the attention to being a martyr.

Chris –
Yes. And we all find ourselves that way, even as a leader. I love putting out fires. Love it. But what am I doing to make sure there are no fires, right? Like that’s where I got to live in the space of making sure there are no more fires. And so I’m a master delegator. I mean, I get shit done through people and I think that that’s really what’s helped me scale business.

Chris –
And so for you, you had three children in the prime of your career and you’re just getting started. How did you like talking to us about that move of realizing it’s time for me to get help and get somebody to help me through this process? Because I think that what holds a lot of people back is not knowing how to do that.

Shivani –
So I’m a control freak like I want to be in control of everything. When I had my first when I had my son crash, my first baby, I ended up in an emergency C-section. And I had bad PTSD about it for like a month. And my mom’s a therapist, actually, and I call her June a lot when I need help with anything because he’s his emotional IQ is, unmatched by anyone else’s.

Chris –
A great yeah.

Shivani –
And I would and I was like, I don’t know, I can’t get past this. Like, it’s killing me. Like Josh told me I should go visit the babies in the nick. You know, be grateful that I have a healthy baby and I’m fine, but I can’t get over that. I ended up in the C-section and my mom, finally, after a month of letting me win, was like, study, slap yourself, look at your baby who’s happy and healthy and slap yourself.

Shivani –
And I was like, That’s true, too. And then I call her dad and I’m like, I can’t get over it. I’m so upset and depressed and traumatized. And he’s like, Yeah, you know why, right? I’m like, Why? And he goes Because it didn’t go according to your plan. That’s the problem.

Shivani –
If you had planned to have a C-section, Shivani, you’d be fine. You would not be upset and, like, mad at the world and wanting to go back in time and change this. And I was like, You’re so right. So one of the things that I’ve done is a coping mechanism for my control need to be in control is I will make everything my fault.

Shivani –
If I can find a way that whatever just happened is my fault, then I can make sure it doesn’t happen again because I’m in control. So every time something doesn’t go my way, I look at whether it’s a loan, whether it’s a deal I lost, whether it’s something that happened with the kids and they had a tantrum in public.

Shivani –
So I’m always like, how is this my fault? What do I do differently so it doesn’t happen to me again? Like your processor forgets to upload something and it blows up at funding. That’s my fault. How is it my fault? How can I fix that going forward?

Chris –
I think that makes you an amazing leader, without a doubt. I mean, I think it makes you an amazing loan officer, but I don’t know that that’s necessarily the best for your mental well-being, you know, because.

Shivani –
When it came time to, like, want to go hard at work, I was like, How? Okay, so Josh gets pissy if I leave him with the kids all the time or if I, the nanny keeps calling in sick. It’s all my fault. How am I going to fix it? And so then I started finding solutions to fix it.

Chris –
We go, Yes.

Shivani –
I found them. And then I kept going and I just had dinner with a friend last night and she’s like, I can’t find like the thing that’s going to for me, like, you know, I stay home with these kids. I work part-time in her husband’s office. Who’s the dental practice? She goes, But I haven’t found the thing that was me.

Shivani –
And then I feel so guilty when I leave the kids to go do something for myself. And he swears he’s not doing this, but he is like pissy when I do it and I’m like, You don’t need him to validate you that he’s pissy like she goes. I keep telling him he does this and he swears he does it.

Shivani –
I’m like, You don’t need him to admit he does it for you to know. It’s a fact. It’s a fact. Just ignore it like he’s going to glare at you when you leave to go to Pilates. And when you get home, he’s going to be a little pissy. You be cheering enough for the both of you when this stops getting a reaction out of it, out of you, it stops being worth his energy to be pissy, and he’ll just get on board.

Chris –
So. So is your anecdote to this truly because I’m confused a little bit about it is it true to kind of find ways that you can like to control it? Or is there some give up?

Shivani –
Sort of what happens is your perception of what happened?

Chris –
That’s that. Yes. Okay.

Shivani –
So change your perception. You’re in control of it. You’re in control of your mindset. You’re in control of the way you perceive the situation. You can change the way you remember it, the way you view it, and the way you handle it next time. So change your attitude and then you see so many things change. Like I stopped feeling like it wasn’t my right to work just as hard as my husband was working.

Chris –
That’s it. Okay, that’s where I’m getting.

Shivani –
It’s my right to. If I want to hustle, I can hustle the same. He can. He’s equally parenting these kids and we will equally be responsible for figuring out the solutions.

Chris –
What’s your greatest accomplishment? Kind of once you understood that, what did you what were you able to accomplish from there?

Shivani –
Being a top producer.

Chris –
And you love that. I mean, that there’s that value of winning.

Shivani –
Like that’s the thing is it’s not about the money, right? It’s not about how much commission I made by being the top producer.

Chris –
Doesn’t suck.

Shivani –
No, it doesn’t. But it was about winning. I love winning. So even when I get the deal right, when I impress the client, I feel like won their respect. Or when I find a way to get the girl close, I won as I win. I found that I’m the winner. And so being the top producer, like, I just love winning.

Chris –
So when you got into this business ten years ago, what was what if you can go back to yourself and give yourself some advice back then, knowing what you know now, what would you say to yourself or what would you do? Do you think that journey was meant to be the way that it’s been?

Shivani –
It was totally meant to be the way that it’s been. Because you learn from these things, right? I don’t know how you like a good example is I’ve been married before. This is my second marriage and I always say I don’t know how people learn how to be married unless they fail at a marriage one time. Because like I learned so much about how to treat people and how to behave and how to act by having a marriage blow up in my face.

Shivani –
And so I think the same thing applies to business. I think you learn the most from the things that you sucked at or that you failed at, or when you fell on your face. MM.

Chris –
This is good. This is good. I didn’t know that. And why would I know that? But so went how was this in like ten years ago, which is within that period of you being a loan officer prior to that.

Shivani –
Now I got married when I was like 22 right out of college. Nobody should be allowed to do that. It’s not a good idea.

Chris –
I think after 25, I mean, and I think 4 minutes in their thirties, I don’t think that.

Shivani –
Nobody should get married at 22. You are a child.

Chris –
So this is so good. So it blew up in your face. You, you, you, you now kind of have this spirit, these life experiences that have created who you are today. And so do you mentor females? Are you just more find yourself helping them from a leader perspective side by side as you build your team?

Shivani –
I love mentoring, so like I’m trying to figure out how I launch some sort of coaching thing because I love helping people figure out how to stop standing in their own way.

Chris –
Yeah, that’s, that’s what, that’s what I was thinking because as I’ve started to really focus in on this, I find like, you know, what resonates with me may not resonate with a female, right? We’re two different people. We lead differently. But I do think, like, if I could think of five people right now that I work with that need a Shivani in their life like that they need like somebody who’s got to that next level.

Chris –
And here’s why I say that I was looking for a coach I think there are two kinds of people in this world. There’s, there are people who have coaches, and then there are people who don’t. I always have fallen into the people who don’t like I’m not paying some dude some money to tell me what I probably already know.

Chris –
However, I just was like, I need to really work on some shit. I need to get better at who I am. And I got I want to be a better leader. And so I was like, I’m going to finally go down this high. I was like on my agenda of like my business plan, like year. And I would be like the one thing I didn’t do.

Chris –
And so finally I was like, Alright, I’m gonna do it. And so I dropped some cash and I hired this guy. Well, actually before I hired this guy was looking for I wanted somebody who looked like me. And by me, I don’t mean like a short Mexican with long hair. I meant like somebody who was, you know, who went through kind of how I grew up was, you know, didn’t go to college, you know, and figured out how to make it.

Chris –
And then and then, like, you know, they would coach me because there were ten steps ahead of me and I would learn from them. And I was looking for and I was looking for and I really wanted somebody who is Hispanic as well. Like I just wanted to just kind of the same kind of culture, that sort of thing.

Chris –
And it was nobody there was nobody in the industry that I could find. Now, I’ve met people since then that kind of, you know, that if I was if I had met them, then it would have been like a perfect fit. My world was just limited, but I just feel like there’s got to be a way for you to help more people.

Chris –
And I don’t know if it’s like a master class or, you know, something, but there’s a need for it. And I could like I said, I could think of like five people who need a Shivani in their life. And there’s that you ten years ago that would love to be mentoring with you and so that way those that journey is just a little bit faster maybe it shaves off three years of success or four years of success or five years of struggle to get to that.

Chris –
So success is faster. But yeah, I mean, I just think what you’re doing is so inspirational, and seeing you on stage really like I honestly at Ford, you were my favorite because it was raw, it was gritty. And I like that you talk a little bit of shit and then it’s like part of your personality and so.

Chris –
So yeah, I would love to see you accomplish that. So what are the next things you want to get to in your career?

Shivani –
I want to start some sort of thing like you’re saying, but it needs to be very personal, so I’m not sure how to best put it together, but it’s going through my head right now a ton. I’m trying to sort out how we can start some sort of coaching program. I also really like my whole life. I’ve wanted to be a writer.

Shivani –
That’s how I got into journalism because unfortunately at the time that I was in college, newspapers were dying and online news hadn’t taken off, so they didn’t know where.

Chris –
Print app. Yeah, it’s a good point.

Shivani –
So they were like, Prints are dying field, you can’t do it. So you have to switch over to TV. So then I switched to broadcast, but it didn’t light my fire the same way because you can’t tell. You can’t go in-depth the 90 seconds the way you can in a feature article in the newspaper. So I’ve always wanted to be a writer.

Shivani –
So another big gold mine is to become published, like publishing a book.

Chris –
But it’s a book about is it fiction. Is it nonfiction? What is like, okay.

Shivani –
I don’t have the imagination for fiction.

Chris –
Okay?

Shivani –
I love reading it, but I don’t think I would be good at writing it. Maybe I don’t know. But I think it’s going to be a nonfiction book when it finally happens. So I want to focus on that. And then I also like my ultimate goal in life would be to be able to be present. So, you know, like when I’m home with my kids to be present and not be worried about what’s happening at work and when I’m at work to not be worried about the fact that I’m not with them or when I’m on a vacation to sit on the beach and relax and I’ll worry about everywhere else I should be.

Shivani –
So I think you’ve arrived in life when you have the ability to be present in the moment you’re in.

Chris –
Do you do you meditate?

Shivani –
No. Should I?

Chris –
I don’t know. I mean, I just started over the last couple of months and it’s hard. And, you know, meditation is like really that exercise of trying to focus and really get back to focus and get back to focus. And your mind starts to wander and it’s like getting it back. But then you’re creating a muscle of like in these spaces where like your phone just went off and now you’re like, okay, what did they want?

Chris –
Like, it’s like getting back to a moment of focus. That’s what I like, I watch it sometimes while I’m talking to people. I’m thinking of a million other things and, you know, like we’re kids, right? Like a lot of us grew up with so much, you know, the overstimulation that I needed it. And so what I noticed, the biggest thing I notice is I meditate in the morning and then I go work out.

Chris –
And when I’m working out 90% of the time, I’m not there. I’m somewhere else. Like I’m thinking about my day, I’m making a list. I’m like just kind of going through the motions. Or once I started to meditate, I noticed that when I was working out, I was focused on the muscles working out. I was focused on, you know, something I love that we’re talking about focus and your phone is blowing up like this is the best ever.

Shivani –
But does the iPad somewhere in this office, the phone is on silent, but I don’t know how to make the iPad. Shut up.

Chris –
It does it. Yeah, me neither. So. So, yeah. So, like, if you, you know, so for me, that was really it. It was like just trying to figure out that mental. They call it like it’s a muscle. You’re creating a focus so that 10 minutes in the morning that you meditate, you’re just getting back there.

Chris –
So I don’t know if you should or shouldn’t, but for me, I don’t want to take a pill to get focused.

Shivani –
No.

Chris –
Like I want to figure out how to manage my mind, you know? So that’s why.

Shivani –
I could this working well, because even, like, small shifts before. So I stopped, I started setting an alarm at 830 and then taking my phone into the kitchen to charge it overnight. But the biggest difference wasn’t that I stayed up till stop staying up till 2 a.m. watching Tik Tok. It was that in the morning if your phone is right there, you pick it up and you look at it first thing when you’re still laying in bed.

Shivani –
And I had to buy an alarm clock I didn’t realize it had been years since I’d had an alarm clock by my bed, but I bought one and then I stopped looking at my phone first thing because I read Jay Shetty’s book, Think Like a Monk, and he talks about how horrible it is to look at your phone, one because of the brightness of the screen when your brain is still waking up to because the way information floods it like you’ll see all the emails you’ve missed, all the social media notifications you missed, the text messages your brain you like to go through the day way more tense because of the way you started that

Shivani –
first few minutes.

Chris –
That’s it.

Shivani –
So when I stopped sleeping with my phone next to my bed and sometimes I would like to make it all the way through breakfast before I remembered to check it and find out that someone got denied in the middle of the night. Or some conditions, stupid. Or some borrowers started doubting me. I was more even keel all day to handle all those things later because I just didn’t flood the information in first thing when I woke up.

Chris –
Do you still do that?

Shivani –
No, because my baby monitors on my phone don’t make like the new thing. Is it the monitors in your phone? It’s so stupid.

Chris –
So, so quickly not to. You could take this on a diatribe, but I will tell you like so I don’t check my phone anymore purposely because the first thing I do is meditate because I’m like, I’m just trying to get my mind right. I’m trying to get it.

Shivani –
Good.

Chris –
And then and the calm app and I think there are several apps, but I use a com ad because there was a like a 12-step guide as they guide you through, you know, how your brain should be working and what you should be thinking about and how you focus, how you breathe, all those things. But, but, yeah, it is very similar to you I got an alarm clock and so I focus my phone where you won’t like do anything unless I activate it.

Chris –
And then this, this, this little alarm clock I think it’s called a hatch. Yeah. I have to. Yeah. And that’s the coolest thing like how it like just chirps birds or something.

Shivani –
We went to Up with Light and then I said it’s.

Chris –
Best thing ever.

Shivani –
It’s very romantic.

Chris –
Yes, it really is. So I purposely don’t check my phone and then I do that and then I just have a little bit more focus and then if I do something like this, like 10 minutes before, I’ll try to do like a five-minute breather, you know, like where I get my mind, right? So I could truly focus because we’re just bouncing off the walls all day and I don’t think people realize how much interaction we have in our industry.

Chris –
We are just like in high emotional, high stakes business. That is just a constant interaction.

Shivani –
And so dealing with people during a vulnerable time where they’re very high emotion too.

Chris –
And so when I get home a lot of times of shit like I feel bad about that and I don’t want to be like that. And so I was like, Maybe this will just get me a little bit better. And honestly, I feel like I’m more engaged, so I hope you try it, and then we’ll talk about it.

Chris –
But this will be really cool to kind of, you know, go and see if this is something that you can do. But super curious how that would work. So did I go off track on that? But I really like Shivani.

Shivani –
I think it’s really good. I got to do it.

Chris –
I think, you know, you’re if I could predict this and I’m pretty good at this. I wanted to get you on the upswing. And I really think that you know, like the next time we do this, somebody on your team is going to me. I have to pay for this. And so I needed to get you on the upswing.

Chris –
But you are going to be a rock star. And I think that any chance that if anybody’s listening who has the ability to get Shivani on stage, get her on stage because she is one of the most amazing speakers that I’ve seen. But it’s real and there’s grit to it and it’s raw and it’s authentic. But hearing your story and hearing how you’ve been able to touch success in a way that you have is amazing.

Chris –
But what is truly amazing and what I like, what I love about you is the fact that you come from a place of I think I’m pretty cool and I think that I am supposed to be here, whereas a lot of us second guess that and I think that that’s a missing key piece to being able to be confident without arrogance.

Chris –
And there’s a fine line with that. But it’s also like knowing that it’s okay to be confident. And I don’t think a lot of people understand that. Real quickly, because I want to go back to this. Where do you think that comes from?

Shivani –
Just being on your own team? Because if you like, you’re never going to be able to count on everyone else with 100% certainty, I’m very lucky that I have people in my life that I know will stick together forever. Like me or you. Tenille We’ll always have each other’s back. We’ll always stick together. We can always count on each other.

Shivani –
But other than that, I think you need to know because there’s someone out there listening right now who doesn’t have an OR. Janelle But you don’t need them. You just need yourself. You need to be on your own team and always have your own back. So don’t doubt yourself. Show up for yourself when you make a promise to yourself.

Shivani –
Don’t break your promises to yourself like all you’re doing is ruining the credibility you have with yourself. So if you can count on no one else in the world, be able to count on yourself, and have your own back. And you could do anything. Like I started grad school in 2020 when the market exploded and I’m just slowly going through one class at a time to get my master’s, but I’m not going to let myself down.

Shivani –
I started this. I didn’t think I was going to get pregnant the third time. I didn’t think the market was going to explode. Does it matter? I can do I have my own back? I’ll just go slower. I’m just not going to let myself down. I told myself I was getting a master’s, so I’m doing it.

Chris –
You’re getting a master’s on top of being a top performer. Three children and getting on stage whenever you can. I mean, this is nuts. This is crazy. God bless you. And Brett. But I think that that’s like the way that I think that a lot of people need to be thinking is like it’s okay that the goal just the goal posts get moved.

Chris –
You’re just not going to let yourself down. And I think in understanding how to make those negotiations with yourself but never to back off of, of, of making that goal. And I think that would be Grace.

Shivani –
Give yourself grace. Like oftentimes a lot of us are very hard on ourselves to like as much as we let ourselves down. We also talk shit to ourselves all day long. And I think you have to stop doing that because you are all you’ve got. You’re the only person in the whole world that you know without certainty will always have your back.

Shivani –
So I mean, with certainty you always have your back. So don’t talk shit to yourself. Like, be good to yourself. And when you talk about yourself to people talk highly of yourself.

Chris –
I love that. I love. And that’s hard to do. I mean, I’m working with a branding person now who you know, it’s all about getting to know me and talking about myself and I’m like, I don’t want to do this. Like, I cringe every time I have to talk about myself. But I do think that there is that having the confidence to say it’s okay to do it is key.

Chris –
And so I think a lot of people need to really understand that. Okay, I’m we are we got ten more minutes. So I want to get a couple of things from you. So tell me your biggest pet peeve being in mortgage right now outside of rate. I mean, that’s we know that. But what’s your biggest pet peeve?

Shivani –
The distrust? I don’t think it’s anybody’s fault, but we live in such a distrustful time. So do you remember? Like when we were younger, the news was super like those evenings, the anchors on the news, you trusted them like you got your news and your parents and you watched the evening news like those people were God. Like they were telling you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Shivani –
A huge problem with our society right now is that there are no credible media sources, unbiased. I mean, nobody’s getting the news from the evening news anymore and they’re getting it from social media, which is totally skewed. So every time we go to tell a borrower or something, they come to us from a place of distrust because they approach all of life with distrust right now, because it’s there’s never been a time where people have been less trustworthy of everyone.

Shivani –
And so I often feel like the first half to 75% of securing a deal or client or sale is just them earning their trust, just having them feel safe with me.

Chris –
How do you do that?

Shivani –
Not trying to sell them something not good for them. Like there are plenty of people out there who may be at this specific moment, homeownership isn’t the right thing, and real estate investing isn’t for them. But overall, I feel very confident that it is an accessible way for people to change their lives and that almost everyone should buy their home and almost anyone could benefit from real estate investing.

Shivani –
Like I really, truly believe that. And so it can be exhausting to convince people that and for them to not think that. I’m just trying to make a commission so crazy.

Chris –
But I agree. And I think that it is really understood. I mean, you have to believe in what you’re selling, obviously. And I’ve never at what we’re doing is selling. I always felt like we were helping people. Yes. But I do think a lot of people approach it from a sales perspective, from their content to, you know, whatever.

Chris –
Right. Like it just comes off as disingenuous. And I think that gives us a bad name in the industry, which is why I think and this is solely just my thought process, but I know that my parents are more comfortable doing a financial transaction with somebody, their culture. And I know that if you talk to any Spanish-speaking loan officer, they will tell you that they probably have to work with that client for a year before they’re ready to get in the home.

Chris –
But when they get that client, they get their entire family there, you know, backyard barbecues. They’re you know, they become a part of that family. They were able to help them accomplish something that they never believed they would be able to do.

Shivani –
Which is absolutely amazing.

Chris –
Which is absolutely amazing. Right. And so I think that in order to overcome.

Shivani –
This is interesting, though, because Indian people, I feel like would prefer to work with a white person.

Chris –
Why do you think that?

Shivani –
I don’t know. But they don’t trust each other.

Chris –
It’s funny because I do think that there’s in cultures like mine like we’re kind of deep down haters and like just in general, I don’t know why, but we are, which is you got to work through that. As for me, I got it like the moment I and I’ll give you a really cool example like Rene Rodriguez, everybody loves Rene Rodriguez.

Chris –
And I was like, Wow, why does everybody love this dude for? And so I had to like figure that out. So I just sent him a DM and I basically said like, why does everybody love you? Lets me. And then we met, we did a podcast, and like love the guy, right? But it was like from me, it was from immediate li like being a little bit of a hater and I don’t know, he triggered me on something that he posted one time and but, but I will say as I think deep down we all kind of carry that our some of the carry it.

Chris –
But I wonder if that’s where that resolves from that distrust. I don’t know. But do you find that you help or who is your segment of business like going back to that avatar question, like who is your segment of business that you get most of it from? Is it just anybody or?

Shivani –
My avatar is a female, that’s 30 to 50 old. But no, my business is equal. Like there’s no I can’t find a trend in the demographics.

Chris –
You can’t. Okay. It’s just that you’ve studied this, you’ve tried to get to it.

Shivani –
Yeah. It’s everybody like, I hope, more men than women at certain times. It all fluctuates. Families, young couples, older couples, and families of all different cultural backgrounds. There’s no, like, a method to the madness.

Chris –
I love it. I love it. Okay, last one. What is the biggest accomplishment that you’ve had outside of being the top producer?

Shivani –
I manifested the family. I was one.

Chris –
That is amazing.

Shivani –
That I have like I always wanted to duplicate me or Jun and Neil. Yeah. And I don’t know how, but it worked out.

Chris –
So real quick, talk about manifestation because I don’t, it’s something it’s weird because this word and this concept have been around, right? But over the last three years or two years, I’ve read more about it and heard about it and it’s, it’s a thing and.

Shivani –
Yeah, and I’m not into this woo-woo shit, but like I think if you believe something will happen, you truly believe it and you put it out there and you make it known. So like, I think it’s important to say what I want to accomplish in the next few years because I can’t do it alone, I’m going to need people’s help.

Shivani –
So put it out there, say what you want. And like I always told everybody I was going to have a kid at 28, married or not, with a partner by myself. So I did. And then I always said I wanted to have my family again. And there was a whole time period where I thought it just wasn’t going to happen, but I never stopped wanting it because my husband was dead set on one kid.

Shivani –
So a compromise was two and he was done. And we fought about this for years.

Chris –
That’s why he’s so pissed off every time you leave him with him. Yeah.

Shivani –
Wanting more. He’s, he’s come a long way. This man deserves credit as.

Chris –
Well because I heard when they said, when you’re so small, it’s so hard. But then they turn a corner and then they’re, like, kind of self-sufficient, like, and then you’re like, okay, this is.

Shivani –
I accidentally have a third then.

Chris –
Then yes.

Shivani –
But everyone’s like, Was it accidental, Simone? And I’m like, Look, I didn’t rape the guy.

Chris –
Like, my wife is like, I will have a kid when I’m ready to have a kid. You have no say in this. It’s happening. So. Yes, so yeah. Was it really it and.

Shivani –
But she’s here now. That’s all that matters.

Chris –
That’s all that matters. Right. And I’m pretty sure she has them wrapped around her finger.

Shivani –
Oh, I, it’s so funny to watch. Like the difference.

Chris –
It is really weird. Girls versus boys.

Shivani –
I know it shouldn’t be, but it really is like she can do no wrong in his eyes.

Chris –
That’s. That’s exactly it. Well, I’ll tell you, I am. I’m so thankful that you took time because I know you’re busy, you’re a top performer, you know, and you did this with me today, so thank you.

Shivani –
For having me. It was so much fun. Here’s what I’m like, a good, reflective, and formative process. So I actually think, you know.

Chris –
Well, thank you. That’s really cool. I wanted to have like you and me, whenever I meet somebody that I’m like, I immediately know that I want to do this with them. I almost kind of try to limit the discussion beforehand because I want to get to know you here. And so I learned some really good things about you, and I hope that you and I can figure out ways to collaborate in the future.

Chris –
So here’s what we’re manifesting. So one, you’re going to be on 50 stages next year, and I believe it. I see it, I taste it. It’s okay. You did this to me. And it’s what I love about your personality. But we were having a conversation in Vegas toward we were at a bar. We ran into each other at a bar.

Chris –
And I said and I was telling you about this thing I did, being inspired by Neil’s forward event, I, I put together a breakthrough event for local like 125 people intimate thing. And it was one of the hardest things that I put together. It really was hard. Doing an event like that is not easy and it’s not.

Shivani –
For the faint of heart.

Chris –
Not for the faint of heart. And it was very expensive. We’re so underwater on the deal, but it changed lives. And I still hear people today that like that event changed my life. And I was backing off of it because I went into a new job. I, you know, took on just a lot to chew this year. And then the market tanked, right?

Chris –
So we’re doing all of that. And so you just said like, I don’t know, in a most calming way, like basically what the fuck you’re going to do with Breakthrough 2.0? And I was like, Oh, and I was like, Right, it’s happening. And literally been living in my head rent-free since then about that and it’s going to happen.

Chris –
And so we’re in 2023, we’re going to break through, we’re going to get you to work and it’s going to be one of the 50 you’re going to do. And I can’t wait to be there with you. So I really appreciate you joining today and it was so cool to get to hang with you. And I hope that this is just the beginning of our collaboration far more in the future.

Chris –
So thank you, Shivani. And if you’re not following Shivani, follow her on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Tik Tok. Do you have a YouTube? Yep. Follow her on YouTube and do a deal with her. She’s in Reno where are you licensed?

Shivani –
Reno, Nevada. In California.

Chris –
Nevada. In California. Call her because she is doing something she is just helping so many people get into homes and invest money in real estate and build wealth. So, Shivani, thank you so much for being here.

Shivani –
Thank you. And I can’t wait for breakthrough 2.0.

Chris –
It’s going to be awesome.