Chris –
So I posted I don’t know if you saw this, Sean, but I posted a I took one of your videos. It was a really cool, like kind of packaged video and I’m going to tell you who said this, but somebody from Ford, you know, I posted like, Hey, I’m going to be no cap. I’m going to be interviewing Shawn Kaplan today and like, the first person was like, I like Sean’s face. And I was like, man, I mean, I feel like I’m the last person to know about you because I went to this event in Las Vegas and I had no idea what this event was like. Maybe the night before. Kelly Zitllow, was a speaker at the event that you were speaking at she hit me up and she’s like, Hey, do you want a ticket to this event? And I’m like, Well, let me see if I can get a plane ticket to Vegas. And I went to Vegas. No idea what to expect. But then I looked at the program and it was like, I don’t know, like 20, 30 people talking, you know? and I’m like, how are we going to get through all these people today? And it was like ten-minute TED talks and you come up and it was just one of the coolest things because I, I had this like, I don’t know what you want to call it, but to me, it was a really cool moment where in a world of let’s go grind, you know, like you just this masculine, macho, you know, kicking ass, whatever, This dude comes up and is probably one of the most vulnerable people and I was like, I just want to be friends with this dude and, and because nobody’s talking the way he is. And so I felt like I was a little bit late to the party, man, but I really want to tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to do this with us today.

Shawn –
It really means a lot, Chris, and I have to be honest with you, dude, I followed you for a couple of years now. I was like, Who’s this guy with long hair loandepot that’s doing video? And I was like, Because you’ve been in the video game for a while now, and I was I was watching you and I might have even copied some of your stuff.

Chris –
Oh, bro, that’s like the nicest thing that I can get from anybody because, you know, I don’t have the type of following that you have. But, you know, I look at guys like you who are doing, you know, amazing work and I’m like, man, how do I get to that amount of following? Right? So for me, I was like, interview them, get to know them and I think for you, man, it’s like you just have this way of authenticity that I don’t get to see a lot of people doing in our industry because I think we all feel it. We’re just not talking about it probably the same way that you do. And so thank you, man, for being here today.

Shawn –
Well, thank you for saying that. And I’ll tell you how I got I got pushed into that, Chris.

Chris –
What is that behind you? Is that a pig or is that a what is that?

Shawn –
So Or it is a boar. It is a boar’s head. And the reason why I have that is number one, I was taught years ago to start to build relationships with my realtor as well. I like to hunt. Well, I met a guy who liked to hunt and I said we did a lot of business together. Why? We go on a boar hunt together? I’ve never been on one, so the cool story behind that is I got to kill that boar with him. But the reason why I put it on the wall with my team was like, Why do you have that on the wall? And I said, I’ve always had a saying that my grandmother taught me growing up poor, and it was like, pigs get killed, hogs get slaughtered and so when I in the mortgage industry, when you used to be able to control your own pricing and you could add points on as a broker and stuff, you know, I’ve had bosses who like forced me to like, charge people more. And so it’s always been something that’s really important to me that, you know, earn a fair keep, give your best and people will come back to you and refer you. So that’s a good reminder there daily.

Chris –
Oh, man, I love that. And that’s a really good you know, that’s a really good point, right? I mean, we’ve been in the industry for a long time and have been through, you know, so many different types of people, leaders in the industry that are mad that people just lost their way in in the way that we do business and so when I look at what we’re going through today, this is a really good segment actually because our a segue way because one of the things that I like, I watched your brain work the other day when we were in at the Ford event. You’re wearing a forward shirt. But there was we were talking to Chris Doe and Chris Doe was talking about how to bring to life your brand and there’s a there’s a crossroads of are just a position. I think I’m saying that wrong but you know what I mean. Yeah of like the things we tend to be ashamed of or embarrassed by and then you pair that with what you’re good at and you develop hope dealer.

Shawn –
Hope dealer.

Chris –
This dude is just I was like, after that, I was like, I’m that we’re best friends. He does this dude doesn’t even know me. We’re going to be best friends at the end of this because he’s just doing things and talking in a way that nobody’s talking about. And I keep saying that. But man, I wanted to get you to tell your story because let’s start with that, because this is something you’ve recently launched and you went fast execution was flawless. You’re now you’ve just become the hope dealer. And so, Sean, tell us a little bit about that.

Shawn –
Well, you know, first, thank you for saying that. First of all, I can’t claim two words. You know, I’ve heard it out there. People have said it. But for me, it resonates and it’s something that I can own and use and pass on to others. I’ve always dealt something, Chris, You know, growing up, lost my dad when I was six years old, five years old, saw a kid that I was you know, I was throwing a ball, would get run over by a car.

Shawn –
Just a lot of tragedy in my life. So at seven or eight years old, I started my first Kool-Aid stand to help my mom because she had no money. So I was dealing with some Kool-Aid. And I learned that if you didn’t put a price on it when people came up and said, How much is the Kool-aid? After doing it for a few weekends making no money, I just would look at them, and be like, Whatever you’d like to give me, sir. And one of them handed me a $5 bill. And I said I’m on to something. So people start, give me fives and tens and a couple of bucks instead of $0.10. And so when I got into high school again, I was, you know, we were poor for a long time as long as I can remember, I started making fake report cards. I started dealing fake report cards when, you know, the Apple computers and the printer and, you know, I’d go and copy them off. And then, you know, when I got my twenties, you know, I started dealing a little bit of dope, you know, some things to people and Hope Dealer means a lot to me because without going through all the details, you know, we either go through a little bit of trauma that and have a great life or we go through massive trauma like me. But I know one thing, the opposite of despair is hope. And so if I can go out there and deal some hope to people and you’ll be a dope healer, like then I’m going to end this world and people are going to come to my funeral or people are going to say something about me and it’s not going to involve Sean being a great mortgage guy and I’m petrified of leaving this earth and having people say he was a hard worker. He was damn good at his job. You know, all that stuff you hear. I don’t want him to say that. And so I appreciate you talking about the authenticity and the vulnerability. I didn’t just choose to do that. I was kind of still in there.

00;07;57;26 – 00;08;14;12
Speaker 2
Why were you trusted in that? Why do you why do you say you didn’t have an option? Because I feel like everybody out there doesn’t have an option yet. They choose to just do the opposite and overcome it by, you know, using words and using a bunch of, you know, play on, you know, whatever. Because I tend to do that right?

00;08;14;12 – 00;08;37;07
Speaker 2
Like, I don’t want to be vulnerable. I want to show strength. And what people don’t realize is that your vulnerability is your strength. I mean, you know, for the last several years, I think the content that I want to absorb are the ones where people’s vulnerable, where people are being vulnerable versus them doing a flex. And so you know, you’re you’ve gone to this, this, this because you talk about it.

00;08;37;07 – 00;08;51;28
Speaker 2
You said I’ve been through all those things. I wanted the cars, I wanted this, I wanted the watches, I wanted all those things. But I realize at some point that there’s more to this, so talk to me about why you feel like you were forced to be vulnerable.

00;08;52;00 – 00;09;12;04
Speaker 1
Okay, So, another reason why I hope dealing is something that we can all gravitate towards is, number one, the first part, hope you’ve got to you’ve got to have something that is in your life that is pulling you towards something. So I was thrust into it by not having a father, not having any money growing up on welfare, or getting bullied.

00;09;12;06 – 00;09;28;02
Speaker 1
So all those things forced me to say, you can either just be a victim to this or you can choose to go out and do something different and work yourself out of it. So I say that I was thrust into it, Chris around hope because I would go to other men and I would say, I want to play baseball.

00;09;28;02 – 00;09;43;07
Speaker 1
Will you show me how to throw a curve ball? I want to have a pinewood derby car and Boy Scouts. Would you show me how to build it? And all these men would step into my life and women, you know, that I had in my life that I would say, I don’t know how to do this and I don’t have somebody show me this because my mom worked three jobs.

00;09;43;10 – 00;10;01;22
Speaker 1
I didn’t see her a lot. And they would show me how to do these things. The second part of it is the word dealer. Okay? We all have two choices on a daily basis. We can go out and be the conforming version of the world everybody wants us to be, which is to shrink, to make other people feel more comfortable around us.

00;10;01;24 – 00;10;20;19
Speaker 1
Or we can be the most authentic version of ourselves. But to do that, you have to be ready to deal with that, and to deal with that, that means you got to have reckless abandon, authenticity, and not be scared to tell people about the fucked up shit that you’ve had happen in your life. Because you know what somebody is waiting to hear and say, You know what?

00;10;20;25 – 00;10;39;14
Speaker 1
He’s not the perfect guy on social media with the big house and the nice car and everything’s great. No, I’m going to do that. Gets angry, I get sad, I do things I shouldn’t do. I blow up relationships and it’s a product of my environment and now I’m doing something different about it.

00;10;39;16 – 00;11;07;24
Speaker 2
So, I titled that the I started doing a podcast with my name. Right. For lack of a better. I couldn’t think of anything that was really creative enough. And then as I was going through this and going through this, I realized that there are breakthrough moments throughout life that you, you know, as you’re right before a breakthrough happens, the best way to describe it, there’s, you know, water boils at like 212 degrees.

00;11;08;02 – 00;11;08;22
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;11;08;24 – 00;11;38;05
Speaker 2
And everybody talks about like it doesn’t boil it to 11, you know, boils at 212. But I don’t care about the 212. I care about what happened at 211, like what was happening to you in the moments that were breaking through. And so, like you just said, it could inspire one person to change or to get angry enough or to get frustrated enough to then take it to the next level.

00;11;38;05 – 00;12;01;04
Speaker 2
So that is why it’s so important to hear stories like yours. And you told the story twice. I’ve heard you and you get me every time you talk about it. But because children tend to be I feel like I could have even been one of these kids and not realized it. Right. Because we forget things. But, you know, I kids say some of the weirdest shit ever.

00;12;01;09 – 00;12;36;28
Speaker 2
And someone said something to you after your dad passed that was so impactful to you. And you’ve talked about it twice. And I’m like, Man, I just wanted to hug that kid and be like Bro, don’t listen to that person. Do you mind telling that story to us? Because I think that’s what it’s all about. It’s like about, you know when we walk around with these shameful things in our lives that hold us back and you figured out a way to break through and be a better father, be a better person, be a better partner because of all the things that happened to you.

00;12;36;28 – 00;12;49;20
Speaker 2
And so in spite of people trying to hold you down, you broke through in a way, in a way that is remarkable. You know, I mean, so if you don’t mind, I mean, I don’t know how much vulnerable you want to be here on this show.

00;12;49;20 – 00;13;18;08
Speaker 1
No, I don’t I don’t have anything to hide. And so I’ll tell you this. I built a mortgage career. I’ve built three different companies, two over 100 million, 250 million. I’ve done that. I made the money. I made millions. I saved millions. I’ve had the fancy cars, all that. Chris, I say that because once you get to that pinnacle, it doesn’t feel much different that what’s inside of you doesn’t change right.

00;13;18;10 – 00;13;36;29
Speaker 1
And I hit this wall and the last couple of years have been hard. I changed companies after 12 years, I got out of a coaching program after 10 years. I mean, there was a lot of like feeling like I didn’t have an identity, right? And so through that, I started just questioning and asking, what do I want and how do I want to lead other people and lead loan officers?

00;13;37;01 – 00;13;58;08
Speaker 1
This all happened and I arrived at that point when I had all this stuff and I was miserable because from the age of six years old, I’m sitting on my living room floor watching cartoons on a console television, and the phone rings and it’s my mom and she starts crying. And I just remember enough at six years old and I remember saying, you know, what’s wrong, Mary?

00;13;58;08 – 00;14;21;21
Speaker 1
I’m scared. Mary, I love you. Mary. I remember those three sentences, and that was about 10 to 15 minutes before my dad left the payphone, got in his van, drove up on the Verizon Bridge in New York City that goes between Staten Island and the city, and stopped in traffic and opened up the door and just walked right over the railing 300 feet.

00;14;21;23 – 00;14;43;07
Speaker 1
And he had a picture of me, had a picture of my sister, and he had taken out his false teeth for some reason. My dad was older. My dad was, you know, he was 30 years older than my mother. He was a product of his environment. This is my father. When he came to Ellis Island in 1926, this was him right here.

00;14;43;07 – 00;14;44;17
Speaker 2
Wow.

00;14;44;19 – 00;15;05;14
Speaker 1
So he was a lot older than my mother. Mm hmm. And this is my grandfather, Isidore, and my grandmother, Sarah. And they were escaping the Holocaust. They had left Poland and come over here. And so at the age of 17, he joined the Marine Air Wing. He flew in a tail and the tail of a plane. He was in the bubble.

00;15;05;16 – 00;15;25;20
Speaker 1
So that really messed him up. In the fifties, he tried shock therapy because of his PTSD in the sixties and seventies. They got him on lithium and he was good when he was on his medicine. But when he wasn’t, he got really, really sick, and depressed, and we had to pull him out of a hole. So this was the third time that he had been in a treatment center.

00;15;25;23 – 00;15;46;18
Speaker 1
My mom and he had separated. She was 17 and he was 47 when they met. Wow. She had me a few years later. He died at 53 and so we were living in Vermont. We’d have to go down. I remember going down and pulling him out of his apartment because he wouldn’t answer the phone. All the blinds were closed and that was the third time we put him in that treatment center, and went back to Vermont.

00;15;46;20 – 00;16;08;24
Speaker 1
He acted like everything was okay and he knew what he was going to do. And so at the age of six, my mom got off that phone and, you know, kudos to my mom for being the toughest lady I’ve ever met. Like she does whatever. And she watches some of these. But my mom was not emotionally available. She grew up in an alcoholic, abusive, and sexual family.

00;16;08;26 – 00;16;23;03
Speaker 1
Just terrible stuff. Eight kids in upper upstate Vermont. And she didn’t she wasn’t equipped emotionally. She went ahead and suppressed her emotions and feelings to not feel that pain. She had to protect it.

00;16;23;03 – 00;16;41;23
Speaker 2
I mean, it’s it’s a weird way to protect herself from everything. But, I mean, she had to like she had to figure out a way. Right. Do you feel like, I mean, that she had to in for survival purposes and emotional support purposes, figure out ways in her life to just block out bad shit?

00;16;41;25 – 00;17;01;06
Speaker 1
The pain was so hurtful. And listen, people on this podcast are going to relate to this because I relate to it, right? I just went away for two weeks. We’ll talk about this later, but I just want to go out to Scottsdale, Arizona for eight days of intensive to deal with pain and trauma. And what we do is cover it up because it hurts so bad that eventually, we don’t want to deal with it.

00;17;01;06 – 00;17;21;05
Speaker 1
You stick your hand in the toaster so many times you eventually say, I’m not putting my damn hand in that toaster. It was a year before my mom had me, she was in New York City, pregnant with twins, and she was in delivery. My father was traveling on business and both the twins died at birth on top of all the other things she’s had happened.

00;17;21;05 – 00;17;34;13
Speaker 1
So when my dad died, she literally came over to me and she’s like, Hey, buddy, your dad died, You know, I’m sorry. He died of a heart attack and big boys weren’t allowed to cry. Yeah. Or when things got bad, it’d be like, I’ll give you something to cry about. That’s just how I was raised, right?

00;17;34;18 – 00;17;36;09
Speaker 2
Same. Yeah.

00;17;36;12 – 00;17;53;19
Speaker 1
So six years later, you know, I started getting vile with my words. Start lashing out. I mean, children will find ways to lash out. They’ll find avenues. Adults will, too. In some of my things would be words. And I would tell her things like, I hate you. I don’t know if any people can relate to that, but I’d be like, I hope I die.

00;17;53;21 – 00;17;56;21
Speaker 2
And I was six years old.

00;17;56;23 – 00;17;58;03
Speaker 1
12 years old, 11 years old.

00;17;58;03 – 00;18;15;20
Speaker 2
Okay. You were weaponizing those. I don’t think so, Sean. I don’t know, man. I don’t know that. Like, that’s a normal thing, you know? And I’m not trying to, like, by any means. I’m just saying, like, I would like, ’cause my kids are that age right now, right? Ten and 12 and, you know, right in between there.

00;18;15;20 – 00;18;16;11
Speaker 2
But I would be.

00;18;16;11 – 00;18;17;11
Speaker 1
Crushed of my kids.

00;18;17;11 – 00;18;27;29
Speaker 2
Get crushed. Like, I mean, so your mom didn’t have to go through that. Is like, you know, amongst everything else had had to be really tough for her. But keep going. I just I’m just very, very.

00;18;27;29 – 00;18;48;26
Speaker 1
Tough for her. And anger is a secondary emotion. So when you are angry, it’s really because you’re lonely, sad, worried, whatever it might be. So at that moment, she got angry, of course, and she made a severe lapse in judgment. And she walked away and walked into the bedroom. And then she walked back and I was like, What the hell are you doing?

00;18;48;26 – 00;19;05;14
Speaker 1
She didn’t say anything. She pulled out a pink piece of paper. She slammed it down on the counter, and she said something to the effect of, No, your father’s the one who didn’t want you. And I had to read the death certificate from the top to the bottom, from his name to his date of birth, to find out that how he really died was not a heart attack.

00;19;05;14 – 00;19;17;15
Speaker 1
It was a jump off a bridge. You had a diagram of his body. You had the back, his head circled, and had things that nobody should read. Like I think you said, he didn’t have a brain in his skull because he floated in the water for two weeks.

00;19;17;20 – 00;19;29;17
Speaker 2
Why do you what if you could go back to that moment and look at it from her perspective? What do you do You think she was at her wit’s end like, no, we should try to get through to you in a way? Or was.

00;19;29;17 – 00;19;43;20
Speaker 1
She? No, she was hurt. She was scared. Yeah. She’s like the one thing I love and the one thing I’ve tried to protect is my son. Because she was protecting me. She didn’t tell me for six years how he died because she was protecting my heart. And for me to lash out and say, I hate you or you didn’t want me.

00;19;43;28 – 00;20;03;08
Speaker 1
Her defense mechanism was like, This ain’t my fault. This is your your father did it right. And again, she wasn’t equipped to deal with, Hey, let me tell you what happened. You’re good enough. You’re good, little boy. Your dad loved you. Your dad was sick. She didn’t. She wasn’t taught that. So, man, that really fucked me up pretty bad.

00;20;03;10 – 00;20;25;25
Speaker 1
And I got pretty angry from that point. Moving forward until 45, which is what I am now, I would just find different avenues. First, it was work. I mean, I was really good at work. I would get bullied, but I could always work and make money and get affirmation. And people said you were a hard worker. Then in my 18, 1920, I started blossoming the butterfly and, you know, ended up being a good asset.

00;20;25;25 – 00;20;29;18
Speaker 1
Instead of all the kids calling me Buckskin and Travolta Brow.

00;20;29;21 – 00;20;32;23
Speaker 2
TRAVOLTA Yeah, that’s You got that Travolta chin, dude.

00;20;32;26 – 00;20;49;04
Speaker 1
Yeah, I got I got introduced to hair gel for the first time. Oh, yeah. I was like, wow, okay. I started getting a little money in my pocket, went buy some clothes, and that’s when the drugs and the partying and in the women started. But then I got into the mortgage industry and I found identity in it.

00;20;49;08 – 00;20;51;13
Speaker 2
What? How old were you when you got into the mortgage industry?

00;20;51;18 – 00;20;52;17
Speaker 1
I was 21.

00;20;52;17 – 00;20;58;03
Speaker 2

21. Okay. What a great age to be. What a great age to be in the mortgage business.

00;20;58;06 – 00;21;00;11
Speaker 1
Three months before September 11th.

00;21;00;13 – 00;21;01;28
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, that is.

00;21;02;01 – 00;21;04;10
Speaker 1
So how long have you been in When did you?

00;21;04;10 – 00;21;06;28
Speaker 2
Have a great year.

00;21;07;01 – 00;21;19;02
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I went to work for a guy in a shop, but I found identity in it, Chris, because people liked me again, I was good at it. I was really good at it because I was really good at waiting tables. And to me, it just felt like it was similar.

00;21;19;02 – 00;21;19;16
Speaker 2
It’s very.

00;21;19;16 – 00;21;30;08
Speaker 1
I also bartended because I had three jobs in college, but how I ended up here in Nashville was I actually moved from another college to be with my girlfriend.

00;21;30;12 – 00;21;30;25
Speaker 2
Got it.

00;21;30;25 – 00;21;39;13
Speaker 1
I kind of put my whole degree on hold, and changed my engineering degree just to be with her. And on the first day moving into the dorms, I found out she wanted to dump me and she was cheating on me.

00;21;39;20 – 00;21;40;18
Speaker 2
No.

00;21;40;21 – 00;21;42;07
Speaker 1
So that was more trauma where you.

00;21;42;07 – 00;21;45;11
Speaker 2
Moved, you moved how far you were. Where were you moved from?

00;21;45;11 – 00;22;05;18
Speaker 1
Right about 3 hours away from here. Little tiny college engineer town called Cookeville. Yep. And I came over to MTSU, Middle Tennessee State University. And, you know, that was all. Again, this is all blessings in disguise, because I’ll tell you later how it all cumulated into good stuff. But you know, that put me on a path where I was like, I’m not relying on no one.

00;22;05;21 – 00;22;26;21
Speaker 2
Well, well, hold on. This is about the pain, right? This podcast is about that portion. So I do want to get to it, but I want to revel in this for a bit because I think that, you know, you’ve been through so much, right? And you start to see success, you start to find yourself, and you start to get confidence in who you are as a man.

00;22;26;24 – 00;22;44;27
Speaker 2
Pack your car and you take this drive. How long did it take for you to figure out from the drive and get to this town with so much hope in your eyes to then find out that she was cheating?

00;22;44;29 – 00;23;01;29
Speaker 1
You know, I don’t I don’t know exactly like the day I’m pretty sure that I moved into the dorms. It was before school started. Got it. Yeah. And I’m pretty sure she wasn’t answering her phone. And I went over to the apartment that day, and that’s when I found out it was the day I moved to town. Everything was in a box.

00;23;01;29 – 00;23;03;20
Speaker 1
And that’s what I knew. I knew no one.

00;23;03;25 – 00;23;23;28
Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. How was it? Was that for you by this point? Do you have enough like your mom in a sense, where she was able to block things out? Were you able to block it out or did you feel that pain immediately or did you just go off and like, I’ll just find somebody else? Like, what were you?

00;23;23;29 – 00;23;24;25
Speaker 2
I think at that moment.

00;23;24;25 – 00;23;45;25
Speaker 1
At that time, Chris, I had coped enough. The last piece of pain that I had was two years before that at the first college when my mom dropped me off and I remember vividly she gave me $100. She said something to the effect of everybody, you’re on your own now. I had financed all my college and I looked down in the window out of the dorm and she was driving away and I cried all night.

00;23;45;29 – 00;24;10;22
Speaker 1
I lay there. I mean, that was my mom. And I cried just watching that car go away. And I didn’t stop till the next morning. And I was like, Man, you got to go to school. You got to go to work. And that was the last time I really allowed myself to get hurt, You know, when my dad died at 12 years old, the very, you know, a year later, my dog, I’ve always had huge, huge relationships with my animals, pets, especially dogs.

00;24;10;24 – 00;24;29;01
Speaker 1
One of my beagles got cancer and my mom was just like, hey, you need to go up in the woods and put a bullet in its head. And I lived on a dairy farm at that time and that was I thought it was normal. My therapist now tells me a couple of weeks ago he asked, Could you ever imagine having your 13-year-old put a bullet in your dog’s head?

00;24;29;01 – 00;24;39;25
Speaker 1
I said, Absolutely not. So that here it is, Shawn, you love it and then take it away. That was my toaster. And I was like, This ain’t going to happen no more. So that’s when I stop.

00;24;39;25 – 00;24;40;17
Speaker 2
And anymore that’s.

00;24;40;17 – 00;24;43;10
Speaker 1
That’s it. Women and dating women.

00;24;43;12 – 00;25;11;25
Speaker 2
Protection and just protection Shelling your is completely building a wall around you know your heart and it’s so crazy, you know. Shawn when did you do so when do you remember the moment when you stopped talking to yourself as a kid I say this because up until like my forties, when I would talk to myself and I would rationalize with myself, I was talking to my 16 year old self.

00;25;11;25 – 00;25;26;11
Speaker 2
I was talking to the child. Right. Like and then it wasn’t until my forties that I finally got to a point where I was like, I’m actually talking to myself now like my inner child grew up. When did that happen to you?

00;25;26;14 – 00;25;45;16
Speaker 1
Man? You asked really good questions, by the way. You’re really good at this. So, you know, Chris, you ask that question. Just when I went away two weeks ago, I realized that I never talked to my inner child, inner child self because at five years old, it was already being pulled away.

00;25;45;17 – 00;25;46;20
Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

00;25;46;21 – 00;26;03;23
Speaker 1
So two weeks ago I realized there is an inner child and I did some EMDR therapy and I went back and got to console that 12-year-old boy. I went back and got to console that kid at college. I got to go back and console that six-year-old boy, and sit in watching cartoons. And this is the first time in my life I’ve ever realized that concept.

00;26;03;23 – 00;26;27;16
Speaker 1
And I hope people really understand this. If they hear anything in this podcast. We have to have empathy, compassion, and sympathy for our childhood self that exists inside of us Every day. We’re doing things that will make us anxious, sad, angry, whatever it might be. And if you can stop and say, Hey, thank you for showing up anxious about what’s going on with you right now.

00;26;27;18 – 00;26;46;14
Speaker 1
Right. Like if you have an addiction, that addiction, what’s happening is that your coping mechanism coming to save you, that’s your that’s your younger self. And if you could say, whoa, thanks for showing up again. Want me to smoke that joint? But I’m going to go over here and try to spend a little alone time and go for a walk and figure out what’s going on with me right now.

00;26;46;16 – 00;27;17;16
Speaker 2
Those are tools that I mean, Sean, even me in this age, you know, I, I have to learn to cope with, you know, like, you know, there was a guy that was talking about I heard somebody say this story and it was like he stopped drinking. There was a guy who stopped drinking because he realized that on his way home after work, he was thinking about which wine or drink he was going to have.

00;27;17;16 – 00;27;36;13
Speaker 2
And the entire drive home he was consumed with the romance of his best friend, which was the drink and the moment. And he was a billionaire. Evidently, this guy was a billionaire and stopped doing it, just decided on his way home. This is just this thought is consuming me and I have to do it.

00;27;36;13 – 00;27;55;02
Speaker 2
And I and I catch myself at times doing that same thing. Like, I won’t you know, I’m not drinking, you know, like ten days will go by and I’m like, start to get to that point where I’m like, thinking about and thinking about it. And it’s all because we we don’t have a coping mechanism to really take the walk.

00;27;55;02 – 00;28;18;18
Speaker 2
Instead, I did 75 hard and the hardest part, about 75 hard, was the no drinking. And so Fridays would come and all I wanted to do was have a drink, but instead I’d have to go for the workout, the 45-minute workout outside. And I feel like the urge would magically disappear because, you know, you were like, okay, I feel good about myself now that I don’t have to go drink.

00;28;18;18 – 00;28;34;24
Speaker 2
But it’s a weird coping mechanism that we weren’t brought up with. How have you learned to, you know, what tools talk about that tool that you’ve you’ve gained through, whether it’s therapy or just, you know, how did that come to you?

00;28;34;26 – 00;28;57;24
Speaker 1
Okay. So the journey from when I got into the industry, at first it was money and there was drinking involved because it was the mortgage industry. Right. I’m going to say something that I haven’t said publicly yet, but I’m okay saying it. So I grew up in Vermont. Marijuana and cannabis are pretty much a daily thing up there.

00;28;57;25 – 00;29;09;03
Speaker 1
Like it’s normal. I was I was raised around it. So when I got to smoke my first joint in my twenties and I realized some of the pain went away and I was funny and people wanted to be around me, I was hooked.

00;29;09;07 – 00;29;10;02
Speaker 2
You’re hooked.

00;29;10;04 – 00;29;31;26
Speaker 1
And so I will tell you, Chris, for the last probably 10 to 12 years, I’ve been almost a daily marijuana user because I wanted to numb the pain so bad. That doesn’t work when you don’t have it, when you’re angry when you can’t, you’re not in a place you can do it. But here we are. We came out with Vape, which makes it completely easier for everybody else.

00;29;31;29 – 00;29;51;27
Speaker 1
And I woke up months ago out of this fog and I said, I don’t want this anymore and I’m going to lose my family. I will lose my kids. But most of all, how can I be my most authentic, vulnerable self? And I’ve got this secret in my closet. I never really got addicted to cocaine, pills, drinking. I can always walk away from it.

00;29;51;27 – 00;30;09;12
Speaker 1
Work in marijuana. I’ve always been my two addictions and I just got tired of it, man. So when you ask me how I cope with it, I didn’t. I mean, I don’t think that’s a solution, but that’s what I did. And I thought it worked for me and I made it work for me. I probably made it work better than anybody else could ever make it work.

00;30;09;12 – 00;30;25;00
Speaker 1
It was in my back pocket, but getting up at 8:00 going to bed at 9:00, and being high all day for the last ten years is not a very enjoyable life. So that’s really, really what I wanted and what caused me to take the next step into that.

00;30;25;02 – 00;30;44;28
Speaker 2
So crazy, so crazy. You know, you say thank you for sharing that, by the way. And I think that would you think about being authentic and being, like vulnerable and getting the stuff off your chest? I had no idea that you were going to share that. But you know, this brings me to something that I’ve never shared and and not to one-up you by any means.

00;30;44;28 – 00;31;18;05
Speaker 2
I’m just something that brought us together and I’m and I’m going to share this with you. So I live in in Gilbert, Arizona, which is not far from Scottsdale, where you were just out doing this retreat and you posted a picture with a woman. And this is an interesting story. So weird, some weird connections. But many, many, many years ago, I got a DUI, and I’m extremely embarrassed and ashamed of it.

00;31;18;07 – 00;31;36;25
Speaker 2
Not that I got the DUI. I don’t care about that. I care that I did an action that could have killed somebody and landed me there. Right. The consequence? I’m not embarrassed by that. Yeah, but I don’t want to be flippant about it either, because people have lost lives over bad decisions. Like absolutely. So I was record ordered, want to go to jail.

00;31;36;27 – 00;31;45;01
Speaker 2
I did that and then I had to go to I had to go through like court order treatment. And that woman that was in your picture treated me.

00;31;45;04 – 00;31;46;11
Speaker 1
Marilyn did.

00;31;46;13 – 00;32;11;21
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so so that just she’s amazing. But here’s what’s crazy. So I’m in this It’s weird how life works, but and this is kind of just odd, but like, we were I remember being in one of her sessions and it was a group session and, and I really, like, had a motherly she had a motherly instinct with her that it was just like, no shame.

00;32;11;23 – 00;32;27;24
Speaker 2
She was kind of cool like she could talk to you and the way that I needed to be talked to and, and I remember her at the end of it, she got real comfortable with the class and was like, You know, I’m moving into a high rise and I’m going to have high rise living really excited about this.

00;32;27;26 – 00;32;48;28
Speaker 2
And she planted a seed with me about living on a high rise. I not without me knowing. And then about six months later, not thinking about those two conversations, I’m going up to my new place in a high rise. I’m going up to my new place. Sorry. My phone started ringing over here and here. I thought I had it in Do Not Disturb, but.

00;32;49;01 – 00;33;13;11
Speaker 2
And she she. Oh, I’m getting in the high rise. And there’s Marylynn, right? She’s in, she’s in the elevator going up. And I’m like, What are the chances of this? Like, this lady keeps coming into my life? And then you posted and I’m talking, this is like 20 years later posted this picture with Marilyn. And so, you know, just really crazy, weird, you know, coincidence that then the next week we’re going to be on the podcast.

00;33;13;11 – 00;33;26;29
Speaker 2
So I think things happen for a reason. But tell me about this journey you went on in Scottsdale, if you don’t mind, because and if you don’t mind sharing, how did you connect with it, and then what did you get out of it? How did it get you there?

00;33;27;01 – 00;33;45;16
Speaker 1
First I want to tell everyone about the previous thing that I just shared with them, that was private and intimate. And I’m I’m ashamed. I’m ashamed of it. I’m kind of like you where I’m like, it’s not the act of me doing it. What I’m what I’m sorry about is that, you know, I. I lied to people, and I kept a secret.

00;33;45;16 – 00;34;03;06
Speaker 1
They thought they knew me. And I just want to apologize to anybody that listens to this or that’s in my life that I’m sorry I was in that place and I hid that from them. And I try to claim that I lead a life of authenticity. I understand I probably broke trust with people, but I can’t move forward until I get rid of that.

00;34;03;08 – 00;34;13;16
Speaker 1
And it was the only thing in my life that I’m not transparent about. And so now it’s gone, it’s out and I just the freedom that came with it. So I’m going to.

00;34;13;19 – 00;34;31;29
Speaker 2
Thank you for doing that, man. First off, thank you for doing that. I think people will really appreciate the fact that you’re coming clean with it. But more importantly, I hope you know that that’s not something to be ashamed of. I mean, there there’s there’s two parts to people’s lives. There are things that are personal and there are things that are private.

00;34;32;02 – 00;34;43;13
Speaker 2
And this falls in the private of your life. I don’t feel like anybody, anyone in that anybody that you would keep in company with you would shame you for this. I hope you know that.

00;34;43;15 – 00;35;03;08
Speaker 1
Yeah. I appreciate you saying that. I really do hope that people will not hear that that the the problem or how I hear that. I hope they’ll hear that you don’t have to keep things in your life worrying about what other people think because the ones that do love you and care for you and want to know you when you do, ‘ll want to get closer to you.

00;35;03;08 – 00;35;29;17
Speaker 1
So again, I’ll share. So going into the pics, I’ll share because that’s part of it. So Cody Sperber, the clever investor who after I will continue to give credit to forever, Neil had him on a Neil Dhingra on had him on mastermind call, and I’ve followed Cody for years and he said something really profound and I just connected with him because last year is my best year ever.

00;35;29;17 – 00;35;45;21
Speaker 1
I made the most money ever. I closed doors, I added, you know, hundreds of doors to my portfolio. I made X number of dollars. You know, he’s ripping off all the things he did. And I’m thinking like, okay, great, this is wonderful. You know, it’s not really what I came here for. And then he goes, It was also the worst year of my life.

00;35;45;21 – 00;36;08;07
Speaker 1
I lost my marriage. I lost my relationship with my kids. I fell apart. And he goes, So I don’t know what you all want to hear today, but, you know, I’m here to tell you about living the most authentic version of yourself that you possibly can. He said, I just got back from spending a week at this place called PQRS, which is called Psychological Counseling Services in Arizona.

00;36;08;09 – 00;36;25;06
Speaker 1
And he goes, It was the most impactful thing I ever did in my life, and I could see it on him. And Chris, I just can’t I wish I could say there was a moment or why that happened, like at that time, but it was meant to be. And I can feel the whole cumulation of my life coming to that moment.

00;36;25;06 – 00;36;34;01
Speaker 1
And I literally just Googled it. I went to the website, went to the intensive tab, filled out the info for an inquiry, and somebody called me a couple of days later and I didn’t look back.

00;36;34;03 – 00;36;34;20
Speaker 2
Good for you.

00;36;34;21 – 00;36;55;20
Speaker 1
Now. Now I almost canceled a couple of weeks before, but I met a man in my life who has been deeply impactful and he’s super, super open and transparent and has been through fire. His kids were actually in the covenant shooting here in Nashville, and he’s the one who saved me from not going because I almost didn’t go.

00;36;55;20 – 00;37;19;08
Speaker 1
I was just going to forego the deposit. So Marilyn Murray wrote the Murray method. She didn’t grow up wanting to be a counselor or a psychiatrist. She’s not even a doctor. But she had a tragic situation, that happened at the age of eight. She was orally raped by three men, eight years old, and she describes it as living in a pressure cooker for 40 years.

00;37;19;10 – 00;37;38;07
Speaker 1
And that pressure cooker just kept building up. And she writes she has a book called The Murray Method. I would recommend every single person read to any human being can benefit from it. The Murray method helps you realize that we are formulated by the things that happen in our life and we create stories as a child that ripple through the rest of our life.

00;37;38;09 – 00;37;58;16
Speaker 1
It’s the toaster thing, and her pressure cooker had built up so much and so she shared that in order to let that pressure cooker off, you have to first recognize the trauma and then you have to know how to deal with it, not cope with it. And then you have to be equipped to move forward. So these eight days, I can’t even do it justice.

00;37;58;16 – 00;38;27;05
Speaker 1
But it’s 80 hours of therapy. It’s a year and a half of therapy in a week. You go from 7 a.m. to 730 at night Wow, there are about 12 different doctors around you, counselors, psychologists, and nutritionists. You’re in a group with about ten people and you go from group to individual therapy all day long. You do EMDR, you do psychodrama, you do the trauma egg and I think it cost me about ten or $12,000.

00;38;27;05 – 00;38;49;07
Speaker 1
But, Chris, I almost signed up to stay another week. So to have the courage to go and invest in yourself and turn the world off for eight days and spend that type of money is probably the best gift any human being could ever give themselves. And so I highly recommend anybody who feels like they’re being held back by things in their past or they’re just not the best version of themselves.

00;38;49;07 – 00;39;10;23
Speaker 1
They want to squeeze all the juice out of life. This is where you need to go. I guarantee you. This is stuff they should be teaching in school, college athletes, and the NFL. Everybody should be learning this sort of stuff. And we’re not equipped with it because we’re told, Don’t be like that. Feelings aren’t safe. Being like everybody else in this message is toxic.

00;39;10;23 – 00;39;31;08
Speaker 1
Like you were talking about toxic masculinity. Those are just little hurt boys who are coping with something by getting tattoos yelling at people and lifting weights. And there’s nothing wrong with all that I got. Tattoos like to lift weights and everything. I just want to go put a jacket on. That’s your identity. Then there’s a problem because you’re not meant to be angry.

00;39;31;10 – 00;39;33;06
Speaker 1
Angry is just a secondary emotion.

00;39;33;10 – 00;39;49;12
Speaker 2
I agree, man. I mean, I think that you know, I totally agree with you. It’s all like a mask to, you know, hide all the shame or all the embarrassment that people walk around with.

00;39;49;14 – 00;39;49;27
Speaker 1
Yes.

00;39;49;27 – 00;40;27;18
Speaker 2
How you know, isn’t it weird the way the world works, Shawn, when you think about, you know, you go from you signed up one day to go to Neale’s event forward and then something triggered you to say, you know what, I’m going to invest in the mastermind and then in mastermind, clever investor shows up and then you end up in, you know, one of the most probably, you know, one of the most intense therapy groups, you know, sessions retreats than anybody’s ever gone to?

00;40;27;20 – 00;40;56;09
Speaker 2
And now here you are, you know, going through dropping some revelations, but also, you know, freeing yourself to be a better father, a better partner, a better husband, a better everything. And so let me ask you this. You know, in terms of well, first off, I’m going to get to the like, the more practical question of how you’re we normally I do this in the beginning, but I’m going to do this now.

00;40;56;12 – 00;40;59;19
Speaker 2
You’re one of the top loan officers in the country.

00;40;59;21 – 00;41;00;26
Speaker 1
You like it.

00;41;00;26 – 00;41;26;03
Speaker 2
Or. Well nobody feels like it. Right. But you’re one of the top loan officers in the country. You’re one of the most if you if we were if there was a ranking of who is impactful in mortgage and real estate from a content perspective, you’re up there, you’re a prolific content producer and creator, and you’re just you’re you’re known in the industry.

00;41;26;03 – 00;41;44;25
Speaker 2
That’s why I mentioned earlier I felt like I was late to the party with you. But having said that, you know, how did you get away for a day? Like, I mean, how were you able to turn it off and say, you know, it’s okay, but not only with just your work but what was the conversation like with your wife to say, I have to go do this?

00;41;44;28 – 00;41;46;08
Speaker 2
And kids.

00;41;46;11 – 00;42;02;12
Speaker 1
My wife, the reason why I’m still with her and why I feel like I owe it not to myself, but also to her as she’s always been supportive. When I was a rotten scoundrel, she would not let me go even when I did things that she could have left me. And eventually, I said, You know, I want to be a better person.

00;42;02;12 – 00;42;22;10
Speaker 1
I don’t want to hurt somebody like this. And then a couple of years later, we got married. So I owe my life to my wife and I’ll be indebted to her for the rest of my life and serving her for the rest of my life. She was super encouraging. She’s like, Yeah, I go, because, you know, Chris, again, transparency like I, I was just angry all the time.

00;42;22;17 – 00;42;37;24
Speaker 1
I would cover it up, but I was just angry. And when you’re behind your closed doors, that’s usually the people that you hurt the most, the most. You know, one of the tips I’ll tell everybody on this, is that was a lightbulb that went off you. Nothing ever good will come out of it. Yelling at your spouse or your children.

00;42;37;26 – 00;42;56;28
Speaker 1
Your brain shuts down. It is it goes haywire. So you’re doing the exact opposite, what you want to accomplish, which is getting somebody so I wouldn’t ever get violent or anything like that. I just would yell a lot. And so she’s like, Yeah, go away. She, my wife has so much love inside of her. I’ve never heard her say anything negative about a human being.

00;42;57;00 – 00;43;19;17
Speaker 1
And so she’s always been about self-exploration and being better. So that was easy. She was supportive. She may go herself and she doesn’t have massive trauma. She has things that have happened, but she’s probably going to go for a week. My team, the only reason I was able to do that I wanted my best friend is know my team captain.

00;43;19;19 – 00;43;41;24
Speaker 1
We’ve been together for ten years. My team knows how to handle clients I’d like. They’re really good. They’re like they could go out and have a loan business themselves, but they don’t want to. That’s not their gift and talent. And they completely embraced it. You know, they didn’t know exactly all the details. They will once they watch this, but they knew I was going away to just work on myself.

00;43;41;24 – 00;43;55;25
Speaker 1
But I don’t think they knew where I was going or whatever unless they really looked into it. My team captain did. But business right now, I told myself, I said, if I’m not going to do it now when is going to be a good time to do it? Because next year I believe we’re going to be it’s going to be chaos.

00;43;56;00 – 00;44;21;17
Speaker 2
We’re going we’re going to be we’re going to be a rally. We’re going to be in probably you know, people aren’t sharpening their knives now and getting right mentally getting right, physically getting their business, their process right. They’re going to have a rough time next year and they’re going to miss a lot of opportunity. And so I think you’re doing the right thing right now is investing in yourself, you know, in preparation for being your best self.

00;44;21;17 – 00;44;27;28
Speaker 2
When we go in through another rally, we don’t you know, we’ve been in this industry since oh one. We haven’t had this this this time period.

00;44;28;00 – 00;44;51;11
Speaker 1
Where it’s like, this is the most unique time period I’ve ever seen. And people are investing in coaching digital and social. They’re trying to better their business. And yet we’re not working on the most important part, which is this mindset. And so for me, it was just this is prep like this is this is separation season, as Ed Miller says.

00;44;51;13 – 00;45;08;24
Speaker 1
And so I was like, I’m going to stop counting the dollar, stop worrying, and I’m going to invest in the things I know that are going to. And I was doing all this with branding and with Neil, and I tell Neil and Trev this, I was like, You changed my life. Like I was getting a point. I was miserable with this industry because I was doing it the way everybody else was doing it.

00;45;08;27 – 00;45;26;26
Speaker 1
And when Neil and Trevor really showed me how to do socially well and I’m still growing, I would say good, I’m trying to be great. Is like, it really gave me some freedom to be myself and it didn’t happen by coincidence. It was all aligned. I believe it was all planned that I was supposed to go to meet Neil.

00;45;27;01 – 00;45;47;06
Speaker 1
I was supposed to go forward and meet guys like you are supposed to meet Cody Sperber. I was supposed to go out the peaks and now I’m ready for that next chapter of my life. And I hope other people want to turn those pages and those chapters of their life. So I forgot what your question was. But oh, so my team is really the only reason I was able to do it.

00;45;47;06 – 00;45;55;11
Speaker 1
But business is down right now. I mean, I’m used to closing 32 deals on average a month. You know, I’m 100 million. I’ll be lucky to do 50 million this year, man.

00;45;55;13 – 00;46;11;02
Speaker 2
That’s everybody. That’s everybody. But you have to you know, when you take a step back and you look at everybody, everybody’s in the same boat as you are, Nobody nobody’s truly crushing it. You know, there might be one or two people that are making a run, but it’s tough and it’s psychologically tough. It’s emotionally tough.

00;46;11;02 – 00;46;33;00
Speaker 2
But, you know, I think he did the right thing. And, you know, you’ve inspired me more than you know, Shawn. You know, I really you know, when I look at who I’ve met at Ford and who I’ve been able to connect with, you know, the first time I met you and then hearing you again at the brunch with Chris Doe, I was just like, I got it.

00;46;33;00 – 00;46;55;05
Speaker 2
I got to connect with him. And you were you didn’t even think twice. You were like, We’re doing this. And so thank you. I have no idea. And for those of you who are listening to this and want to connect with Shawn, it’s D Shawn Kaplan on Instagram. Do you want to watch this on YouTube? We’re going to you know, we’ll have the whole podcast uploaded it.

00;46;55;05 – 00;47;16;06
Speaker 2
We will be dropping a ton of content with this, but, you know, connect with him, and reach out to him. DM Reach out to me on DM If you guys have any questions about this episode, please let us know. But you know, it’s not often. I think today was a special treat to have somebody come in and talk about the things that no one is talking about.

00;47;16;06 – 00;47;40;02
Speaker 2
You get on mortgage podcast, we’re talking about CRMs and social media and this is about life. This is about struggle. This is about, you know, being vulnerable and sharing the things that you’re most ashamed of and realizing that it’s going to be okay and Shawn, I’m proud to know you. I hope that this is it turns into a lifelong friendship.

00;47;40;04 – 00;47;42;28
Speaker 2
You have no idea how much I appreciate you, man.

00;47;43;00 – 00;48;05;16
Speaker 1
Chris, I can’t I can’t put into words how honored I am to be here. And I will say with honesty, this is the best interview I’ve ever been on. You have a true gift and a talent. This is where you’re meant to be. Like, you’re really, really good at this. And I’m super honored just to be here. I didn’t think twice about it, and if I could leave, the readers would want, you know, the watchers and the readers and all of that out there.

00;48;05;16 – 00;48;24;23
Speaker 1
One thing, if you don’t mind, I want to share the number one poem that I think started this journey for me, and it’s by Marianne Williamson. It’s called Our Deepest Fear if you want to look it up. But I’ve had this on my wall forever. This says your deepest fears. Not that we’re inadequate, our deepest fear is that we’re powerful beyond measure.

00;48;24;26 – 00;48;44;24
Speaker 1
It’s our it is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, or fabulous, Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. You’re playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightening about shrinking so that other people won’t feel unsure around you.

00;48;45;01 – 00;49;04;13
Speaker 1
We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not in just some of us. It is in everyone. As we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fears, our present automatically liberates others. So I hope I liberated some others.

00;49;04;13 – 00;49;13;18
Speaker 1
I hope a message from a Hope dealer landed on you and you’ll take it and become a Hope dealer. Join the cartel and go out there and give some hope to somebody else.

00;49;13;20 – 00;49;32;18
Speaker 2
No Cap. This is Cap Hope dealer Man That is powerful, brother. And we will put that link to that poem in the in the podcast as well. But dude, thank you. And I love you for being here. I love you for sharing your story. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it, man. Good luck with everything. I’ll let you get back.

00;49;32;18 – 00;49;35;24
Speaker 2
But this is going to be a good one, man, I promise. Thank you.

00;49;35;24 – 00;49;36;28
Speaker 1
I appreciate you.

00;49;36;28 – 00;49;38;25
Speaker 2
Any time, brother. I’ll see you.

00;49;38;28 – 00;49;43;07
Speaker 1
All right. Bye Bye.

00;49;43;10 – 00;49;59;10
Speaker 2
Are you good? Yeah, I’m good, brother. Thank you so much, man. Hey. And you know, honestly, dude, like, I could have done this without the cameras. I mean, this was just, you know, you and me talking, but I really. I mean it. I mean, if it wasn’t for that, it was really. I wanted an opportunity to get to know you.

00;49;59;10 – 00;50;10;22
Speaker 2
And I was like, If we could do this and, get it on camera, I’d be even better. But I really appreciate you being honest and showing up the way you did. I don’t know what you were expecting on this, but I don’t know if it was this.

00;50;10;24 – 00;50;30;06
Speaker 1
Well, I knew I wasn’t going to come and talk about mortgages. I wanted to. I didn’t know what I was going to share. But again, you’re really good at asking questions and stuff, man. Like, you’re really, really good at it. And so I just thank you for giving me a platform to start spreading the message. I’m taking the motor home that I lived in.

00;50;30;09 – 00;50;47;01
Speaker 1
It’s becoming the Hope wagon. I’m going to put a podcast set up on it. I’m going to do my YouTube long form on it, and I’m going to start interviewing people out there in the world here, just mainly local. Yeah, until I can really grow it. But you really inspired me and I have a lot to learn from you.

00;50;47;01 – 00;51;21;11
Speaker 2
Oh, bro, if I could ever help with anything, and if ever I’m in your part of the world, I would love to connect with you and do some content with you, man. I think. I just think you’re great people, man. And so I’m glad you’re. I’m glad you’re up to on forward also, because I really want to be around cool people and honestly, just sharing with you, you know, I’m in the middle of an of a valley personally and with, you know, and so I’m actually like really at that point where I’m seeking therapy with not drinking anymore.

00;51;21;14 – 00;51;49;03
Speaker 2
And I just realize I just got tired of it and, you know, but, but then those things go in your mind and start fucking with you on maybe you should. And so I was looking around the room like, Man, you know, this board is a big party and I’m starting to get anxious about going to this event, you know, and having to, you know, like, feel like there is a need for partying and cooking up with, like, people like you and Thomas Babaeko and Rickie Abboud, who nobody you know, I don’t I’m sure you drink still a little bit or maybe don’t but like nobody’s drinking so.

00;51;49;03 – 00;51;57;03
Speaker 1
24 days sober from porn alcohol, weed everything so I don’t plan on going backward Good.

00;51;57;03 – 00;52;12;16
Speaker 2
For you man. So look support system I’m going through it, too. I’ll connect with you about it here and there. But man, I just need a support system, and I’m sure you do too, but you know, it. It’s having those tools in place to be able to live life without it and, you know, to right it.

00;52;12;19 – 00;52;23;18
Speaker 1
It’s right down the road. And I tell you as a friend, like, there’s nothing better you could consider to do. And it’s it takes courage, but at the very least, pick up that book and read it again.

00;52;23;18 – 00;52;31;29
Speaker 2
I’m going to thank you. I appreciate you, brother. Take care. Thank you.