Chris –
So I am here with one of my buddies, Thomas Bepko. And Thomas. What’s up, brother?

Thomas –
What’s up, buddy? I’m super excited and grateful. Thank you.

Chris –
Oh, dude, you have no idea. I, you know, I’m glad we finally got to get this together. We’re just getting your calendar. My calendar. We’re in one of the craziest markets of our lives. And the day that we’re filming this and doing this is December 2nd. And so I have to say that because there’s no telling. By the time this rolls two weeks from now where the market’s going to be, where our lives are going to be I feel like everything’s just moving at lightning speed.

Chris –
So thank you for being on today, brother.

Thomas –
Look, man, I told you we’re going to make this happen. I’m really excited and yeah, it is crazy times, but this too shall pass. And we’re going to keep it moving.

Chris –
Yes, sir. Well, let me tell people who you are, man, and why, you know, I wanted you to come on. So you’re a father, your husband. You have two boys, right? Am I right on that? Okay. And you’re based out of Connecticut on the East Coast. You and I actually met at an event, too, a year and a half to two years ago, the floor to the first floor to then when it was only 75 people, the O.G. and dude, the OGs.

Chris –
Right. And it was so cool to meet you. And, you know, I walked into a room not knowing anybody and I walked out there with walked out of that room with some lifelong friends, you being one of them, man. And I’m really thankful for the opportunity to get to know you and watch your growth since that time.

Chris –
So thank you for being on, brother. Dude.

Thomas –
Thank you, man. Thanks for having me, man. I told you, this is exciting. We did connect and we stayed in touch through social, right? Like we met a kind of a social that we’re like boys. We know a lot about each other now through social. We talk all the time and messages and it’s cool, man.

Chris –
You know, this is what I always talk about. I mean, so you’re in real estate and mortgage. You started off, you know, based out of San Francisco in 2003. But you were also one of the things that really attracted me to get to know you as you’re a United States Army vet. And first off, thank you for your service.

Chris –
And it’s because of guys like you that I’m able to live the life that I’m able to live. So thank you for the sacrifices you’ve given us.

Thomas –
Thank you. I appreciate that, man. I appreciate that.

Chris –
And you know, you go into it, you’re an entrepreneur. You’re the CEO of Yellow Brick Real Estate. Yeah. You’re the executive vice president of Total Mortgage. You’ve now I’ve had 18 years of experience in the industry out of Connecticut and New York, that whole area, your license, real estate broker, industry expert, you managed successful mortgage teams. You know, there are people I think I mentioned this on the podcast I did with you, but there are people that I know in the industry that at one point were in your circle and were like, that’s one of the best people to know in the industry.

Chris –
And I’m a West Coast guy, so I don’t get a chance to get to know people in that area. But dude, the fact that you’re changing lives and inspiring people the way that you have, I just knew that we had to chop this up. Not only that, man, you’re just a good, good person. You’re also the host of the Thomas Bepko Podcast.

Chris –
Yes, sir. As if you want to find somebody who is extremely entertaining on social media, you can find them on TikTok and Instagram. And I’m going to add in here because you’re going to see more of this. And I see you start doing this, but you’re also a speaker and a thought leader in the industry. So. Thomas Dude, we’re going to chop this up today, man, and I’m excited to.

Thomas –
Let’s go. Right now, I, you know, I mean, where do I start? So right now I’m doing everything I can, you know, I don’t, I do. I’m getting more comfortable on social and speaking. I would love to keep doing that. You know, I spoke last night in the speech. I mean, Chris, I rehearsed this thing for five days.

Thomas –
It was probably in the font of 14. Double-spaced was a page and a half. And I was stressing, you know, and but I like putting myself in that position because what I was doing, I was doing it for the charity. I didn’t want to take my eye off the ball. So yeah, the speaking thing I’m really pursuing, I like it.

Thomas –
It’s because I have performance anxiety like I really do. I don’t know if that’s one thing about me. Like, I don’t like watching my videos or speaking, but I get like a, like making myself feel uncomfortable that makes any sense. And I keep pushing to do it. So excited about it.

Chris –
This is good because you built a brand around this. And this is important to say because I have stress and I still stress about, you know, I get nervous coming into this podcast, right? Like and you and I are friends. So, you know, when you think about what we do and I had to do a speech not too long ago and it was something similar, really short.

Chris –
You know, I stressed over it like I was, you know, I rehearsed it several times. And I love that feeling of that nervousness and that fear that comes in. But it’s funny you say this because I’ve seen you on stage through your social media and you talk about this and you talk about how, you know, you hate watching yourself and you don’t want to watch yourself.

Chris –
But dude, I think you’re one of the best people to explain this because that’s what everybody is thinking. Everyone is so afraid of being ashamed or being shamed for putting out content that they’re so worried about what everybody’s thinking. You got this guy like you who’s a leader. You’re a CEO of a real estate company. You’re an executive vice president.

Chris –
You still get nervous about getting live and going on camera. So how do you tell people to get how do you help people get over that? What do you do to get over it?

Thomas –
It’s so difficult and hard to explain and I know you experience it. Well, first of all, I’ve seen you speak and you kick ass. Speaking of great, you did remember at your Arizona event. It was great. I flew out for it. You where I was actually very impressed. I was like, damn, this dude, this dude is good, right?

Thomas –
Like, you’re entertaining. You’re there. So we have that in common. I like that. You know, we feed off each other’s energy. And for me, it’s like I learned this in the mortgage business and I go back because I learn a lot in the mortgage business throughout my 18 years and making my if I feel kind of uncomfortable about something, but deep down I know I have to do it.

Thomas –
I know that if I get through the non-comfort, the end result is going to pay back more dividends if that makes any sense. Right. I feel better later. Like you always feel better after you do it. You’re like, wow, dude. I’m kind of like on cloud nine. I could have changed somebody’s life today. I helped. I raise money.

Thomas –
I didn’t take my eye off the ball. I can add my value, right? So you have to think about the end result and the reason why you’re doing it. And for me, I just sometimes I just like to face fear, bro. Like, I just like to just face it head-on because if I sit around and wait, it’s not going to get done.

Thomas –
So my job, I just do it and get it over with.

Chris –
And it’s so true. So so I’ll tell you this and in fact, I have a when we hate when we stop this I got to go shoot content and one of the pieces I’m doing is around fear and really stepping into it. You know, like every time you’re fearful or you get that anxiety and in the back of your throat where you’re like, I don’t want to do this.

Thomas –
I hate.

Chris –
You. Right? You hate it, but that’s when you lean in and see, that’s the difference. I coach a lot of loan officers and I always tell loan officers like the moment you fear you’re fearful of something, that’s your cue to step into it. To lean into it. Dude, I used to say this all the time. I hate absolutely hate doing events.

Chris –
I hate doing events because then I’m the one that’s stuck with the coordination of the event I don’t want to do anything, what do I do? I go to the breakthrough event, right? Like and you showed up and trusted me enough to come and spend a day with us to get, you know, information. And it was one of the best things that I ever did, but I hated it.

Chris –
I said it. I hate cold-calling people. I do it every day. I call because I need to make connections with people. So I think the advice that we’re giving the listener and the people that are out there listening to this is you have to face fear and just and the difference between the people who are winning versus the people who are not winning are those that are just leaning into it and getting it done.

Chris –
Thomas, tell me where your life has gone. Take the market out of it. Right. Take what’s happened with this cyclical market. Just with your brand. From the moment you went to the forward event, what has changed for the first four events? What has changed for you and how you’ve kind of approached content and built your brand since then?

Chris –
Because you have a bigger following, people know who you are. What changed for you in that in that regard?

Thomas –
You know, I feel the quality of my community has gotten deeper if that makes any sense. Like I have more quality. I don’t have tens of thousands of followers, but I have a community that I speak with that I engage with regularly that come to me if they need information or questions or to keep connections. And those connections that I’ve met through social media sent forward since connecting with you, since meeting with Neil, I mean, I had Rene Rodriguez on my podcast last week.

Chris –
Yeah, yeah.

Thomas –
Like, that was big for me. I met him at the first event we went to. I believe he was at forward. He’s been around, I’ve seen him speak, my cousin took his course I’ve made and I’ve deepened my connections, especially with leaders in the mortgage business or the real estate business.

Chris –
Yeah.

Thomas –
Did you know we put this out of my social media presence? Like, look, it’s not, you know, I’m not going to get a, you know, what’s my ROI on my social. It’s not. It’s the number of connections I can connect with. And then it’s up to me if I want to do business with them. Add value, show value, create a friendship, you know, it just opens up, it’s opened up a world and it just keeps getting bigger by the day.

Chris –
Thomas, are you getting business from your social media today?

Thomas –
Absolutely.

Chris –
So do you think it’s crazy for people to shy away from it and say, like, hey, you know, that’s just not for me, I’m a word of mouth? I’m a, you know, whatever. Do you think? How do you change someone’s mind who’s afraid of leaning into social media? Because you and I, you know, and you’ve said this just like I have like I don’t love doing this every day, right?

Chris –
It’s to me, it’s I got to figure out ways that I can touch people in the masses and for cheap like I can make 500 calls a day, but if I can get 500 people to look at my content boom, right? Like I’ve just, you know, get in there.

Thomas –
And your content’s role in why you sleep too? That’s because I mean, look, social does so much. It’s done so much. And I mean, I’m still a novice. I’ve posted, what, three, three and a half years? I’ve got a podcast, I’m on Instagram, I’ll take talk on my Facebook, you know, my email list. I’ve, I’m marketing the hell out of myself probably 3020 500 videos, 3000 videos at least.

Thomas –
And I’m learning every video every day.

Chris –
Yeah.

Thomas –
But what you have to do is you got to ask yourself, especially right now for the new loan officer. I mean, I guess they’re new. Less than five years, less than eight years. You’ve got to book a business. But going down a little bit is how badly you want it. Right. What are you willing to do to to get to where you want to be in anything in life?

Thomas –
Me I’m going to give 150% and everything. That’s just the way I am. You know, I understand. I’ve seen the value, I’ve tasted the value. I’ve seen people’s careers take off through social, you know, and I know I can do it. And how bad do I want it, you know? Look, I can smile and I’ll baby. That is how I learned about the mortgage business.

Thomas –
I can reach 150, or 200 people a day sitting in my hole and banging the hook. Right. But on social, I have 3000 people, and 4000 followers. I’m posting a video that is valuable. It’s educating, right? It’s inspiring, you know, and whatever, whatever my content pillars and I have a chance to make a connection faster than I can, smiling and down, but I still call every day.

Chris –
Okay, so how often have you called? Call or let me ask it a different way. I tell you a different way. Like I’ve cold-called people and they’ll say, Dude, I saw your stuff and because of that reason, they’re taking the meeting with me or they’re connecting with me, right? But. But my conversion, your brand, I get it right.

Chris –
Or I call somebody, I’m like, Hey, you on Facebook? Yeah, I’m going to friend you, you know? And then they’ll call me back like, bro, I like your content. And now we’re talking because they shut me down and then they got to know me a little bit, and now they’re talking to me, Hey, are you seeing that happen with your stuff?

Thomas –
For sure. And you’d be surprised how you can get to know somebody through their social media making a connection and direct messaging, right? Following somebody, connecting them to messaging with them, and getting to know somebody. I mean, that’s how it works. Like you’re not just going to get, you know, a bunch of leads or a bunch of people saying, Hey, I want to purchase a home right away, right?

Thomas –
You’ve got to stay in front of them. You’ve got to show your value. You got to know what you’re talking about. They have to connect with your brand, right? But not every connection. You can’t connect with everybody right now. You’re going to love your brand, but you’ll be able social media. You’ll be able to connect to the people that like your brand and the people that don’t like your brand, they can unfollow you.

Thomas –
So and that’s you you’re just building your own building my own dream, dude. You know, like, I don’t know. Fuck it, you know, I’m all in. How badly do I want it?

Chris –
Well, no, this is.

Thomas –
Got to stop every day.

Chris –
Well, I’ll give you a really good example of this. So if for those of you that don’t know Thomas and I hope that you get a chance to look at his stuff and get to know the guy. But I met Thomas, and you cannot avoid him in a room. You know, he’s in a room he brings he changes the room.

Chris –
The moment he walks in, he has energy. And to me, that’s 90% of the game, right? If you can walk into a room and build a brand immediately, then your money, right? I mean, that’s a big deal. I mean, and so it’s no surprise that you’re extremely successful. I will tell you this. I totally judged you.

Chris –
I was like, this dude is partier because you were like, what are you in your words, what are you getting? You’re going to get what he got going on right now? I was like this I can’t hang with this dude. He’s like going on. And I was afraid to hang out with you because I’m like, this guy’s on a level of a party that I don’t even know.

Chris –
And then your point about getting to know you through social media, you made this post about being sober for how long you’ve been sober. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I didn’t know that. I thought, this dude, you know, because you were like, Hey, where you at? We’re going to grab dinner somewhere, you know, whatever. Let’s meet afterward.

Chris –
And I was like, I was afraid because I thought that you were a big partier and I completely, you know, misread this. And I was so proud to hear that you were putting that out there. You took a more vulnerable personal piece of information. And you and you put it out there. And I’m 1 to 2 questions. One, how did your audience respond to that?

Chris –
And to tell me about that journey, man, like, you know, if it’s not too personal, I would love to hear because there’s somebody listening right now that is probably struggling, that needs to hear that you have been able to change your life and be one of the most social people without partying. Okay.

Thomas –
So, well, thank you for the kind words. And yeah, sometimes people that love me or hate me, they don’t get me right away like your experience that I, I mean, look, for me, right? Drinking was my downfall. You know, I came from a lineage of alcoholism. Alcoholism and drugs were my things. Like, it was more just I was a straight liquor bro, like booze, like a booze hound.

Thomas –
And I didn’t. I look, I thought I knew everything. Drinking and partying. I was the life of the party. As you see, how I am now is the same way. I was just drunk, outgoing, loud, maybe obnoxious, whatever. And, you know, alcoholism was my downfall. I couldn’t I couldn’t get around it, you know. And two 2728, like, people go to blame the market.

Thomas –
Oh, it’s not your fault. The market was down, right? Like I was doing a mortgage in 2008. That was the beginning of my getting reborn and I’m actually grateful for everything I went through because I would not be where I am today without what I had learned through the struggles, through the sobriety. I mean, I was a dressed-up mess.

Thomas –
And I had a financial, spiritual, you know, bottom in 2009. And it took me a while to get through that. But through Alcoholics Anonymous, some people don’t break their anonymity. Some people don’t talk about it for me, I want to help like I can’t keep what I don’t give away. So kind of my thing is I like helping the guy get with his back against the wall.

Thomas –
That kind of needs some help and need some direction, especially putting the booze out of the drugs. Because if I didn’t do that, I would not be a husband today. I would not be a father today, I would not be the CEO of my dream company. That real estate brokerage, you know, I would not be where I am at the mortgage company in my career.

Thomas –
And it’s funny is all I had to do bro was not drink but you still told me that because every time I’m over tell me. She’s like, Dude, every time you drink, you get in trouble. Every time you drink, you and your mom like not. Yeah, right. I’m fine. I can handle it. And, you know, the alcohol got the best of me.

Thomas –
And God willing, I got 13 years in March, so I, you know, I’m pretty far away from a drink. Thanks, bro. So far away from a drink.

Chris –
So such a good way of putting your such. You’re so far away from a drink. But, you know, I got it. I got to ask this question because this is a fascinating story. You’re saying that you’re ending of drinking and putting down the bottle was right around the same time as a financial crisis that we were all sitting in.

Chris –
Or was it timing-wise when what was a catalyst? It was like, okay, this is it. I got to bounce out of this.

Thomas –
So I look as the market got worse, I think it was just a bigger excuse for me to drink. And 27, 28, you know, I was at a subprime company, right? They made it a little bit. They went out of business and I ended up going to a larger like-all to an FHA lender.

Thomas –
I moved back to New York because I was in California, so my mortgage career was in California and I ended up back east with a California with New York company that had a California operation. And then they moved my home because they were closing California, and were staying in the hub. Long story short every time I just wasn’t mentally or spiritually prepared for the financial crisis along came with financial, you know, spiritual relationships.

Thomas –
I mean, there were so many things that were just that was my time so I had to, you know, sometimes you have to hit a bottom to realize and they talk about this and I’m not going to get Preacher on you. But there’s in the book of Alcoholics Anonymous, there’s a chapter and there’s a portion that chapters got the Saints got a lot of this cliche saying it.

Thomas –
And it said only in the last analysis where he may be found. And they believe in AA that you have to find spirituality in a power greater than yourself for the alcohol to get sober. And for me that was meaning letting go of the ego, letting go of I know everything. And for me, the guy who’s always talking in loud and has an answer for everything is very hard for me to shut up and like listen and get humble and, you know, it was like during that the most difficult but the best thing in my life, man, I have my family because it has my wife I have my career back like

Thomas –
I was worthless, stewed in the bottle that I could pay. So all I do is put down the bottom. And for those who struggle, right? I mean, look, we have a financial crisis right now. Loan officers are making wages. And for me, look, I know a lot of guys in the mortgage business that loved the party. They love to drink, you know, and you don’t have to do that.

Thomas –
I know it feels good and I know it temporarily kills the pain, but it never for me, it just never did anything good to drink over my problems. Like, right now, you face it, you got an issue. Your prospect, you work harder, you dial harder, you do another video, you post another story, you send out another email, and you make another call, right?

Thomas –
Like you have this. I had to switch my mindset and do a 180. Yeah. And I used to call it at 360 and I’m like, well, no, at 360, it’s not to be back restarted. You got to do a warning. And I didn’t realize that. So what did you fucking 180. Yeah. And you know all looking back man, it was quite the ride.

Thomas –
But dude, I’m forever so grateful. I’m not like, I don’t hate alcohol. I don’t I, dude, I, I don’t understand how my wife could just have, like, half a glass of wine and have a good time. Like, that wasn’t me. But, you know, I just for me, it just doesn’t work. I’ll do anything else. I have a better chance of flying to the moon in my brand new Red Wings, and I do have to control my drinking.

Thomas –
So I just accepted that and I don’t drink.

Chris –
I mad respect for that I mean because here’s why. I mean every time I do a podcast, I always am looking for that one individual who is is who might be suffering in silence. And I always say this like, you know, to my guest before we come in, this is, you know, we really want to touch you, whether it’s ten years ago or 20 years ago.

Chris –
And can you imagine if, you know, old Thomas was listening to you today in the midst of what I would call this a fucking crisis? We are in a crisis in housing, right? Whether you want to believe it or not, when $4.4 trillion of market share our market goes away and is now 1.5 for the entire industry, people are hurting people who are making less.

Chris –
It’s the holidays. Here’s what I found with for me personally with drinking was, you know, I used to drink I used to polish off like a bottle a night like I’m out of wine. Like I always started off with, like I’m going to drink two glasses, you know, with dinner, and then everybody would go to sleep and, and I’d finish the bottle.

Chris –
And then I was like cranky in the morning. It never made me feel better the next day. And, you know, somebody said, I made a comment about this and It really is. Now I’ll drink and very like there’ll be wide gaps of when I’ll have a drink. But well somebody said, you know, that they were driving home one day on a Friday.

Chris –
It was, as I want to say, I was like a billionaire. He said he was driving home one day and the reason he stopped drinking was that on the way home, his mind was consumed with which bottle of wine he was going to have. Like, Am I going to have this one? Am I going to have that one?

Chris –
What? What am I, you know, what am I going to pair it with? And he was like, once he just stopped drinking. He just was like, I get I was able to get my time back, like with whether it was a hangover or whether it was, you know, obsessing about which drink you’re going to have or, you know, all those things.

Chris –
Did you go through that process of feeling like a big relief once you’ve accepted, I’m not doing it anymore? All that time you got back, did, did or was it so a struggle if you’re thinking about it, you’re trying to, you know, bury that thought, you know, well, how did it work for you?

Thomas –
So the first step in Alcoholics Anonymous is accepting the fact that your life has become unmanageable. So if you’re trying to control it, it’s out of control. Right. And B, being able to accept that that was the toughest part for me. Like when I’m telling you that I wasn’t an everyday drinker, I was a party.

Thomas –
I was like the party. I went out, I was hung over. I woke up, I still went to work. I feel like crap. And then when I started my journey to sobriety, like trying to find a spiritual experience, trying to find a higher power, trying to not drink a minute at a time. My alcoholism and my disease progressed. Dude, I started drinking every day, bro, as I would.

Thomas –
And I would end up in a different institution or like get locked up for drunk in public, blacked out. Like, I never imagined myself doing that. And that was my father, my alcoholic father who killed himself drinking and I said I didn’t want to drink because didn’t look like that or be like my dad. And long story short, but I was going to write down that fucking path with the and I didn’t realize it faster than he did.

Thomas –
And I was like, whoa, like, I don’t know what to do. So all I had to do was I had to realize that for me, alcoholism was a disease in the mind. It’s the obsession to drink as you said, the obsession thinking about the next drink. And in order to get rid of the obsession, I’d have to remove it or get it removed.

Thomas –
And they say, and it happened for me, that is, you find a higher power, your obsession to drink will be removed. So if you never have the obsession, you won’t have the compulsion to keep drinking, right? So when you obsess, you obsess. You finally drank and you get the compulsion. When you start, you can’t stop. That was me.

Thomas –
If I popped, I couldn’t stop. You know, one beer led in two bottles, and then it went into just drinking brown stuff as fast as we can to a nip in the morning. I used to call it a steady like not. Did this all happen in, like six months? Dude, I went from fucking 0 to 100 real fouls.

Chris –
And it’s hard. And you step out of it and look at it like, from you know, a different lens. And, you know, we talk I talk about this a lot. And I was actually reading a book at my last book talked about habits and why, you know, like if you always got to look at your habits. And so if I celebrate by having a drink, but then the next day I’m crap.

Chris –
Then I got to change that habit, right? Like, you know, you, you did the habits. He, I think what he said is show me your habits and I’ll show you your life. And if you have bad habits, you got to change those. And what you’re talking about is that these habits turned into a way of life for you.

Chris –
And you at some point just had to make a change and had to add to and to really surrender and say, I can’t control this anymore. And when you did and.

Thomas –
It sounds so easy, that’s what you do. You accept like, dude, I can’t do it anymore. I am cooked, but it’s so out of control that I can’t control it. Therefore they caught no human power. Nobody could save you but God at that point. Only in the last analysis was Amy, maybe some dude. I grew up Catholic. I wasn’t a Catholic school guy.

Thomas –
I didn’t like church. I’m on the CCD. I did all my sacraments. It’s not that God, right? It wasn’t that God. That was hard. Yeah. It’s like due to justice. As long as it’s not the bottle of vodka I’m praying to every day something else. I have faith that the bottle is going to kill the pain, right?

Thomas –
The bottle is going to get rid of my pain that the market all blah, blah, blah. I’m going to drink. I’m going to drink another drink. But what I needed to do was remove this, accept it, and pray for help. And it went away and it was due to a fucking once it once it turned out you got to I have to constantly do my faith.

Thomas –
I pray every day, right? I go through my night. I do. I live life as it as honestly as possible, bro. You know, and you know, when you lie, you get sick. And, you know, when I was not in a good place, when I was drinking in the morning like fucking broke in bankruptcy, like it was bad.

Thomas –
So I didn’t want to ever live like that. I felt what it did to my dad. So I was like, Fuck this dude, I’m breaking this cycle, dude. It’s amazing how show me the way.

Chris –
It’s amazing how, you know, like at times in life we and this happens for a lot of people, but they look at their family or their parents or their father or their mother and they say, I’m not going to do that and I’m not going to turn into them. And then you look 20 years later and they have become their parents, right?

Chris –
Like my dad was a sales guy. I’m a sales guy, right? Like, you know, and it wasn’t like something I ever wanted to do in my head. I was like, I’m not going to do what my dad does. But then turned out I’m doing exactly what he was doing right, which is crazy. But for you, you were like, I’m not going to do it.

Chris –
And then you ended up right there, but you figured out a way to break the cycle. And you know what we did? Where your kids born by the time you were in this or where did they come out it’s so so this.

Thomas –
Right, my kids are never my children will never see me drink. Amazing. This was me single and with no wife. My, I was introduced to AA early.

Chris –
Okay, good. Right.

Thomas –
God willing. So I think in the back of my hand I knew that there was a way out. But that it was a tough road. And for me, a may not be the only way to quit drinking, but I don’t know another way.

Chris –
And it does.

Thomas –
I tried them.

Chris –
All long as you’ve.

Thomas –
You’ve tried them all.

Chris –
And I’m so proud of your story, man.

Thomas –
That worked for me. That’s my story. And thanks. No.

Chris –
No, I mean, seriously, Thomas. I mean, like anybody.

Thomas –
Struggling to get out of your way out.

Chris –
Yeah, dude. So. So, Thomas, I mean, you know, from here, you know, you, you got sober, you, you know, the market eventually shifts. And then tell me about your journey. I mean, when you go back, well, how did you go from you’re remarkable person because you’re one of the few people or one of the very I’ll tell everybody, don’t do this and you’ve done it successfully.

Chris –
You work both sides of the fence as a lender and as a real estate broker and doing it phenomenally well. How did you get into this?

Thomas –
How that was tough too or I’ll tell you, I so I, I when I was in California, I started my I grew up in Connecticut and in New York metro area, moved to California, did my went to the military and stayed in the West Coast, did my career. I had to get sober. I came home and went to a detox.

Thomas –
Right. I still had a job. I was like working. I was already licensed in 2010 ahead of my animosity. 2010. But I ended up moving home to the New York Company and I never went back and I had to go. Once I got out of the like once I got sober, I got two weeks and me three weeks.

Thomas –
I started I got the job at Wells Fargo and Wachovia had Wells Fargo had just purchased Wachovia on the East Coast. So Wells Fargo starts popping up. And I was so I remember I’m like I was driving my mother was driving me. I was probably like 26, 27, and the job was an interview and I’m like, I’m not going back to California.

Thomas –
I got Prospect Mortgage, I have Wells Fargo and I’m like, There’s a Wells Fargo here. I got out of the car, Chris, with my resume and I went in and I said, Who’s the general sales manager here? Wells Fargo. And well, this was a time in 2010, Wells was the place to be because after we had a refi boom, I remember it was crazy.

Thomas –
But long story short, Wells Fargo really taught me to purchase. I was there for nine, or ten months and I lasted at a corporate job at a bank. They made me wear a tie every day. It just wasn’t good. But what I did is I learned to purchase and I learned that I was always a lead guy. And if I had a good lead source, that pre-approval that came to me first is like gold.

Thomas –
Yeah. So I ended up making my career buying leads not to pre obviously to pre-approval clients but just to get somebody to give to my referral partners. Yes. Right. So I was able to generate the lead and have the lead come to us. And then I was I had my I was like, dude, I’m just getting my real estate license because I’m getting if I’m getting 2 million a month from this guy, 500,000 from this guy, it’s costing me X and I’m like, Well, I can just get my license, have a team and speed my team leads and it’s morphed into our filly at Yellow Brick.

Thomas –
We now have, you know, 100 agents.

Thomas –
So, look, I moved home pretty humbling. Like I was. I felt like I was a failure, I was an alcoholic, or I had gone through a lot of these emotions and I had to come back to where I grew up because I had a support system. And dude, I mean, I joined the Army to get out of where I grew up.

Thomas –
I couldn’t stand it here. Like I got out. I joined the military. Get me out. I don’t want to be here. I went as far as possible. I ended up coming back like a dog with my tail between my legs, begging for help and the only place I could stay sober. So I got my shit together and I said, You know what, dude?

Thomas –
I learned this. It was Fargo. This could actually work, right? I could generate a lead. And like, look, we’re all chasing agents. We’re all chasing the same agent. And I got to a point where I was giving a pre-approved, moved, ready, willing, and the able client to an agent they would close. And then I was never like getting anything in return.

Thomas –
So I said, You know what? I’m just going to do it myself. Sorry. Like it’s all good. Like, I was really, it was risky for me, right? Like it was super risky because I had, look, people that I didn’t want to compete with my peers, but I wasn’t getting enough business. And in retrospect, it was super difficult, but it was probably the best thing I did for my career, bro.

Chris –
Oh, absolutely. I mean, like, I became.

Thomas –
Dude, I became a better loan officer when I became a broker because now I can explain to my loan officer team really why the agent needs that communication. Really, why do they understand what the agent’s going through by trying to keep the deal together with 20 different people involved in the transaction? And because the agent gets a better relationship with the client, they spend more time with them.

Thomas –
Right. So we had the agent is, is our key here, you know, and I why would I shut myself off to the key or the keys?

Chris –
So so do you feel like do you feel I mean, obviously it’s helped you, but, you know, how does it help you with your relationship with your loan officers, having the broker license or having the broker company? And then how does that impact your agent’s for having the loan side of it? I mean, is it?

Thomas –
Is it I don’t compete with them? I offer value. Right. I offer my close relationship to my agents. I offer my agents ways to make money using leads, events, and rights. Coaching, right? I offer value. I have to value every day as I work around the clock, my side hustle. I got two side hustles. It’s called mortgage and real estate.

Thomas –
But in and.

Chris –
You’re an investor. No, no doubt as well, right?

Thomas –
I do. I love single-family investing, which is my wheelhouse. When I became a broker, I really start admiring that, especially like in my neighborhoods, like, I don’t know, it’s just one of those things I like doing and I do it. I hate contracting or construction. I’m not my grandfather a was a janitor.

Thomas –
And he raised me and he forced me to use tools. I hate it. I don’t. It’s just that part of my brain didn’t work. But I understand it now through getting beat down.

Chris –
Having.

Thomas –
To, you know, I mean, you know, I lose in construction. You know, you win and I lose. So, yes, yeah, I do, too. I don’t know. I mean, I. I owe it all to my sobriety, bro. Like, I just. Good. I’ll be dead that up, like, as honest as possible. Like, I wouldn’t have any of this if I was drinking.

Thomas –
Well, this is my thing.

Chris –
And because I feel like I can leave something with you. Do you normally talk about this?

Thomas –
Yeah. Dude, I don’t like it. Look, I’m an open book like I told you. Like, I’ll tell you anything. You want me and you want to know something. People at Alcoholics Anonymous that anonymity, and peace. People don’t like to talk about it because they don’t want to be discriminated against me.

Chris –
I don’t care. You are I.

Thomas –
Am proud of you know, they don’t want me to drink in here, Chris. Do you know what I’m saying? They don’t want me. They’re drinking it, right? Like you want me to drink. Don’t ask me why I’m not drinking. Do I like you? Can I tell you? Because I used to say because when? When you first get sober, it’s like you have to.

Thomas –
You have to learn how to, like, be at a bar, at a restaurant. Like, it’s not easy, especially for somebody who drank their whole life to not drink.

Chris –
Is out there.

Thomas –
Do you know? And I’m like, well, like, you know what? And people were like, why aren’t you drinking March or drinking? Like, it’s usually a guy that should be I should be helping who is curious why I’m not drinking. All right so and I should say there’s a saying he’s you know, I’m allergic. I break out of handcuffs.

Chris –
That’s good.

Thomas –
Yeah. I’m actually I’m allergic to really allergic. Yeah. Break on handcuffs, dude. I drink. I’m going to get arrested. Yeah. So you don’t drink and the like what? Like. Yeah, well, you asked such a good point.

Chris –
So, Thomas, tell me, like, you know, I got so many questions for you. I’m just, you know, right now because you’re in a mid you’re in the thick of it. You’re you know, you and I were talking to of the day just about what, you know, how loan officers are feeling right now and how crazy the market is.

Chris –
Now we’re in the holidays and you’re where they’re snowing, right? Like, I’m lucky because I’m 75 degrees right now. Right. Do you know what I mean?

Thomas –
Like 20 today.

Chris –
You know.

Thomas –
Saying a lot, I guess like at the big jacket with the faux fur that can get cold, dude.

Chris –
Yeah, dude. So, you know, you have we have weather on our side, but you’re dealing with, you know, I’m sure applications are lighter than they’ve ever been. Real estate slows down and you’re in your market. So what do you tell your team? Like, what are the three things they should be doing right now to really continue to build and, you know, get out of their head around what’s happening in the market and continue to win?

Thomas –
What did you do today to invest in your personal brand? Because I feel that your personal brand right now is going to take you places that cold calling can’t like we just said. So what did you do for your personal brand today? Right. Did you make your calls? Did you post your videos? Did you email? Did you shoot?

Thomas –
Right. And then secondly is what I have to do every day is I have to wake up and I have to provide value. Now, being a broker and loan officer like I met, I wanted to relate. I’ve always wanted this relationship with realtors that I have being their broker, but it’s a lot different now. It’s a lot deeper. It’s just a different relationship.

Thomas –
And I’m super grateful for it and I’m learning every day. But I have to prove more value now as their broker and their leader and a loan officer, if even look, I don’t my team, we don’t I don’t make them give us deals. I don’t force them. It’s about helping the client. And if I am not proving enough value for you to reciprocate and give me business, what right do I have to ask for it?

Thomas –
So what I say is when they’re sitting around like, Oh, where can I do? What can I do? We are prospecting tools. I know I can give you a million things, a way to prospect content to do whatever you want to do. What did you do today? What do you do? Don’t you sit here and bitch about how your mortgage is out because you’re down 50%.

Thomas –
You’re not making as much money or did you take that negativity and you got to channel it? I would get mad on the phone. I would just smile and down. I would go help somebody. And my daily goal is for you got to get a deal. They got to help somebody a day. Don’t leave the office to help somebody get pre-approval, right?

Thomas –
And then within that, you’ve got the prospecting tools. I can show you a million of them how to go and help somebody. So. That’s right. Good. I love when they bring that up because that’s a daily fucking thing. Yeah. That’s daily. Yeah. How do you get that? What do you say that way they like?

Chris –
Oh, dude. I mean right now I’m like there are so many options. Like, you know, I get real, real tactical with them. Like, you know, you’re not posting, you know, I try to give you as much value to post as possible like we just had right before I jumped on this with you, we did a deal with Barry Habib and Neil Dhingra was actually on a call for the whole company.

Thomas –
Really.

Chris –
For realtors as well and, you know, I’m like everybody was like, well, we need to email it out. I’m like, No, you need to call every realtor in your market and invite them over to your office and you need to get them on. Right? And they need to watch this with you because when they leave and they’re smarter about the market, they’re smarter about content, they’re going to feel more.

Chris –
They’re going to remember who taught them. And it was you. You were sitting next to them. You know, you’re the person that’s delivering them the information that they need to go out and be more successful. And so, you know, it was you know, so my point is, as leaders, I’m always looking for ways that we can help the loan officer have an excuse to pick up the phone and call and prospect.

Chris –
And like you said, there are a million ways to prospect. Right. But I’ll give a couple of others. Like if people are actually doing content, you know, it’s all about eyeballs, right? And how can you get the most eyeballs? And so one of the things is like, take all of your content and start blogging. Just transcribe them and get them into a blog and get yourself more echo.

Chris –
So your, you know, you’re getting found more. And LinkedIn has some really cool newsletter tools and you can do MailChimp as well. And so we’re testing out like just getting, getting. And then also you have a database, you have your CRM, so then take that same message and then blasted to every realtor and every customer you’ve ever worked with.

Chris –
So now they’re seeing you on social, now they’re seeing you in the newsletter, they open up their feed, they’re getting it everywhere. And then once a month, I mean, actually send them an actual letter or a gift and then call them every Monday and every Friday and let them know you’re working and you’re going to be available. And then call them on Monday and say, anybody, I can help you with that you connected with over the weekend.

Chris –
And like clockwork, you’re just like boom, boom, boom. And you’re just like, it’s all about creating that brand and connection. And then, you know, there’s the broker opens and there are all these things, right, that you can do. And so my job really and I’m sure this is where you’re at as well, is like, how do we help the person that’s stuck become unstuck?

Chris –
But the bottom line is you have to try. You have to show up. You know, if you’re working, you know, ten, 10:00, you’re rolling in and you’re bouncing by, you know, go to lunch for an hour.

00:42:10:01 – 00:42:10:29
Speaker 2
And you’re out by two.

Chris –
By two. It’s not going to work. Not in this market, bro. It’s not going to work.

Thomas –
Well, a lot of you know, what we did were, you know, we’re rates when I say we, I was like, look, as a loan officer, look, when rates are 3%, we’re digital and we’re in our home office. Right phones ringing from left and right because everybody’s applying. Great. And we were looking, we had relationships where a new low or an old low with our book of business, our phone was ringing no matter what.

Thomas –
Now, the phone’s not ringing. Right? So you got to smile and dial. You got to go make your own connections. Me, I just. I never was able to. To hang around and wait for my phone to ring. I wasn’t going to wait for an agent to send me a deal, right? I wasn’t going to wait for my phone to ring.

Thomas –
I’m just I mean, I just got to be and the more proactive I am and the more people I can help and use the different tools and the technology in the CRM and absorb it, I mean, it’s, it’s endless and I, you know, I don’t I’m super passionate about it. You know, there are so many ways to do it.

Thomas –
And like, I’m just the guy. I’ll sit here and I’ll do it. I took leads today. I mean, I was calling people back like, it’s great.

Chris –
Well, that’s how I do it. I think what happens is, you know, people get paralyzed by what’s happening, right? So let’s kind of, you know, play it out for those that are listening, that don’t understand, you know, what Thomas is talking about. You know, when we went into a COVID environment, when the pandemic happened, the markets just went bonkers.

Chris –
And every day nobody knew what was going on. It slowed down and then it ramped up really fast because rates hit an all-time low, lower than they’ve ever been. And it really was somewhat of a disadvantage for the loan officers because a lot of people, the industry, because we needed help, there weren’t enough people in the industry to handle the volume.

Chris –
And then all of a sudden it changed in a blink of an eye. In the history of mortgage that I’ve been in this and I’ve been in it for 20 plus years, I’ve never seen a market turn as fast as this did as it did. We are more than ever.

Thomas –
I just touch on this because let me just because every time there’s a big swing like this too I’m.

Chris –
Like we’ve never seen.

Thomas –
A swing like this and they just.

Chris –
Keep getting bigger.

Thomas –
Like the drop and then this and now went back down last week like it’s you know and when Rene Rene actually we talked about this in my podcast last week. Rene Rodriguez is like he checked me with he goes, well, you got to think about I am 28. I was that five-six-year loan officer, a seven-year loan officer that never really saw the market turn like this.

Thomas –
So what was. I was full of fear, right? I was full of ego. I had my own personal issues and the drinking came into play and that didn’t happen. But for the loan officer now like you have to have faith like this is going to pass. Take it from your leaders Chris Mattingly, and Mary Matalin, who’s been in the business 20 years myself, 19 years in the business we’ve been through it.

Thomas –
But I wanted to put myself in the loan officer position which has never been through a swing like this. So, I mean, honestly, I would have been scared shitless. But they have to have faith and they have to know that this is what they want to do. And how badly do they want this career right now? It’s just a true test.

Thomas –
If you want this career, this is what you need to do. There are tools you can make, money, you’re going to make money. You’re not going to die, but you got to work.

Chris –
Absolutely. I mean, look there right now, right now, as we say this, there is somebody that needs your help. There is somebody right now who needs your help. And you know what? They don’t know how to find you. They don’t know how to find you because you’re not posting. You’re not you’re not doing anything. And guess what else will if you don’t?

Chris –
And that’s how people are getting squeezed out. And so, you know, you have to really take into account like how income vignettes and how uncomfortable are you willing to get in order to win. Because there is somebody right now that needs your help and it’s up to you to find them.

Thomas –
Or you’re going to do whatever it takes to get that business. So if your.

Chris –
Lunch breaks, you know, you going to lunch for an hour and a half, you’re going to love going home.

Thomas –
You got the sport, you got the kid’s games after three. And then next thing you know, you’re getting back your calls on Thursday. Yeah. Guess what? Real information is really fast right now. The faster you get real information back to somebody, the better your chances are going to be to help them so well.

Chris –
So, Thomas, like, walk me through this. So you have your you’re not just, you know, some guy sitting in an office every day wearing a suit, you know, pushing out reports. Right. You’re a street guy. And I heard you say the other day you did a post about why you drive the car that you drive. And it was because you want to you’re it’s basically your office.

Chris –
You’re in the car all the time making dials. So tell me what your day looks like on any given day. And when do you start to prospect and how does that work for you?

Thomas –
That’s a great question. So, look, I have to I’m super active, right? So I have to work out. I either train jiu-jitsu. I work out first thing in the morning. Well, if my wife it depends. My wife goes first, my wife will work out first. We’re early risers, five, 536 we work out. She’ll go for her 45 then I’ll go right, come back.

Thomas –
I mean, I try and stay away from my phone before like 637 I try to do my coffee, spend a little time with my wife early in the morning on the cross when she’s going and I’m going and but as soon as I pick up my phone, I’m right on it. The first thing I do, as I said, is I have to prove value.

Thomas –
I have to show my value to my leaders. So I reach out to my leaders first, right? My branch managers and my team lead right. My the president of that.

Chris –
How do you do that?

Thomas –
A lot of tax, a lot of voice tax. But I like to call. Right. The message I’m an old-school phone guy my strong so I’m I like being on the phone so I can make a better connection via phone call than a text. And a lot of times I just check in, what are we got? What’s if there are there any high points that I’ve got to deal with corporate getting deals done right because I like to get shit done director in the mortgage shot.

Thomas –
Yeah right. You know I you know we deal with whether that’s file issues, whether it’s, you know, client issues or getting the deal done on time or it’s going too fast, whatever it is, I have to be there to help the client get in the house. The client that’s getting in the house closest is kind of like where I’m working as a follower of my leaders and making sure then for me I shoot right.

Thomas –
I got to focus on stories, right? So, I have to time block my shot time. So if I’m doing, which is my own personal brand or have the yellow brick stuff, right? So my content, what I got my stories, I deal my marketing to Nicole and Alex and my cousin Alexandra all day. Consider my leaders and I go to like, what should I post do I need to do any stories today?

Thomas –
Like What did I do between 6:30 a.m. till 930 now where I don’t want to post the story? I’m deep in the trenches. I don’t want to get on and do something on social media. But guess what? How badly do I want to have an opportunity to make another connection to help change somebody’s life? So I got to force myself to do a story, look at myself in the damn camera.

Thomas –
I don’t like doing it. I don’t like the way I look. I’m scared shitless, but I still do. And I post it and I try not to watch it myself. By this time it’s probably 11, you know, honestly, like I bring my lunch, I pack my lunch, you know, and then I’m either in the office as I travel to the branches, I travel to the branches for loan officers, shop at the branch for the agents.

Thomas –
Same thing as you. And you know, I’m on the road all day. I, you know, a lot of times now, mortgage and real estate. So digital, my reports are the palm of my so yes in between I’m looking at my reports stopped in my car, reading my reports getting my reports emailed and I look in the app and make sure.

Thomas –
So everything is real-time now.

Chris –
I love that. I, I think I think leaders in the mortgage industry need to hear this because I’m always looking for ways to add value, like, because you and I both know this, that in our industry, loan officers and leaders vote with their shoes. They go walk to another company. If they don’t like what’s going on. And so a lot of what you and I are dealing with is poachers that are trying to steal our people.

Chris –
And, you know, right now as we talk, there’s a recruiter calling our guys all day, every day.

Thomas –
With this nine-hour bonus.

Chris –
Right, with big sign-on bonuses. And so people will stay or will go based on the value that leaders provide. And a lot of leaders don’t provide value. But you said something that that I got to give you a shout-out to, because I don’t think a lot of people do it. In fact, I’m going to start doing it because of this conversation.

Chris –
But starting your day with, I always write down who can I add value to. And I think you have to have a bunch of I’m I need to add value to this group of people and those are our leaders. Those are direct reports. And then from there, it’s who else can I add value to? And I think that switching over will help not only build stronger relationships, but that’s how you can add massive value.

Chris –
And I think that leaders need to know that. I mean, if you’re a leader listening to this podcast, you know, you should be starting your day connecting with your leaders the way Thomas does, and so much so that I will start doing that as well.

Thomas –
What should look like? Anybody could sit at a desk and tell people what to do right for me. And, look, you know, being a loan officer or being a real estate agent or broker, it’s a rare breed where salespeople were 100% commission. Right. You know, it’s you got to I have to fit in each little value prop I have with each different leader.

Thomas –
It’s different, you know, and you have to navigate that and you have to know your team. And I do. I love it. I do like have a passion right? That’s where I start. Like I’m grateful for the opportunity I have. Right? I’m grateful for everything I have. And I’m grateful not even to be able not to drink a day at a time, you know and if I can start with the little stuff, the simple stuff, the big stuff, the big stuff I’ll work through, you know, the big stuff I’ll be able to work through.

Thomas –
I’ll be able to keep pushing or I’ll be able to add value or, you know, like we have the uncomfortable conversations, you know, those happen every 30 minutes, you know, and you have to be resilient. You have to have faith in me. And it’s, you know, you got to have a lot of traits. Man, hats off to me because I know what you go through.

Thomas –
You know, I know what you go through on a daily basis. And I wouldn’t change it for the world though. Like, I love what I do.

Chris –
You know.

Thomas –
I love helping. I love the challenges I get. I get paid to help people. Sounds good.

Chris –
And I have never, you know, I am so lucky. Like, I hear people that talk about how they don’t like what they do or they don’t like their jobs. And I’m just so lucky because every day there’s a puzzle to fix. There’s something that there’s, you know, and at the end of the day and what where that leads to it leads to stronger relationships and leads to people getting into homes that they never thought that they can get into.

Chris –
It’s changing people’s lives. And we have the opportunity to really make an impact. And if I’m going to do this business, I want to be able to make an impact. And so I got to tell you, man, you know, real quickly, side question, because I didn’t touch on it earlier. How old were you when you lost your dad?

Thomas –
Three years ago.

Chris –
Just three years ago, man.

Thomas –
My dad. But my father, he was a bum, like on the street through the and like when you see movies of, like, the worst type of alcohol, I was like, this was him. I don’t know how he lived. I tried to save him my whole life. Finally, you know what I did? I was like, Dude, I’m like, you saw me get sober.

Thomas –
You know, my dad had I had a good when I. So you have to you when you go to the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and I’ll tell you this, you have to make you make amends. You may make amends to everybody you hurt that hurt. You got to clean your side of the street and one of the most touching, powerful moments I had was when you say you get sober when you have these spiritual experiences when you start getting rid of this guilt and relinquishing power.

Thomas –
Right. I had I set my dad down, you know, and I did an immense and, you know, I was the son, you know, and my father was an abusive alcoholic. I forgave him. You know, I had a good when my nine-year-old Daniel was born with my ax. So I have my nine-year-old, my ex, Christina, and, my three-year-old Cole with my wife Lyla.

Thomas –
And Daniel was born and I’m like, dude, I’m like trying to get sober. I had just gotten through my bankruptcy. Like, I didn’t I didn’t know. I didn’t fucking know what to do, bro. Like, I didn’t know I put on the booze, I, I filed bankruptcy. I was 30 years old. I fucking, I was making money, but I didn’t realize everything.

Thomas –
Like, kind of hit me quickly. And when I sat my dad down, I did the amends. My dad had, like, really, like, tried to be a father. Like, he had stopped drinking, but my father was so sick from alcoholism. Like, you can’t when you when drink too much, the withdrawals can kill you. Yeah, right. So, you know, not many drugs.

Thomas –
You can die from withdrawals, alcohol withdrawal, can heroin. You feel like you’re going to, but you can’t coke and all that stuff like you can dive into the drug. The alcoholism was I experienced it. It was the worst. And my dad was really trying not to drink as I saw on his face and he couldn’t do it without it.

Thomas –
The same way I got sober was through booze. But was but he really tried and I and I found out just those few weeks and months that I had with my dad, bro, this was ten years ago and sober moments because he was never sober since. I was like.

Thomas –
Sober, like like pick him up. He’s still sweaty and, like, jaundiced. Didn’t matter. I knew he wanted to be there for me and my son and then he just fucking tailed off. And after like a couple of weeks, he went back down the deep end. But to get those few moments of my father was like, everything, life-changing, so.

Chris –
Well, look, I brought it up only because, you know, I think you’re a perfect example for your children, man. And I think that we’re growing people, and you’re leaning in and the ways of being a better person every day. But it was very, very it was very good for me to meet you and come into, you know, our friendship.

Chris –
And I’m happy that you have been able to probably share a very personal story with us today on the podcast. Man, I didn’t. When I walked in, I thought we would touch on it. I didn’t realize we’d go as deep as we did. But the fact that you were willing to be as vulnerable as you have been. You have no idea how much I appreciate it.

Chris –
But I promise you, Thomas, we’ll get a text message here and there for it. You have touched somebody who needed to hear it today, so I appreciate it. And you’ve taught me I’m learning from you, man, and I. And it means a lot to me that you were here today. So I appreciate it, dude. And I’m excited about, you know, continuing to deepen our friendship through, you know, through these events that we go to and just our, you know, messaging back and forth and, you know, our talk.

Chris –
So thank you, man, for being on today.

Thomas –
Yeah, dude, I’m grateful for you, too. I’m learning from you. I mean, it’s called You Live Far as our proud, but we’re like, here. We’re like digitally, like here, you know? Yes. And I. I respect that. I want to help people that I’m not ashamed of what I went through. I grew from it. You know, I’m glad it helped me.

Thomas –
Some people don’t me, I tell you, I don’t give a shit, you know, that you could judge me. You cannot. If you’re going to judge me, you don’t know me. You know, we don’t need to make the connection.

Chris –
Agree? Agreed. But thank you for doing this today, man. And I appreciate and wish you a very, very successful 2023. I know you’re going to crush your brother.

Thomas –
Yeah, dude, I’m pumped, man. You two. And now. Yeah, man. Withstand. Let’s stay in touch.

Chris –
We will. Thomas. I appreciate it, man. And to your team who helped you get all this set up today? Thank them as well.

Thomas –
I thank you.

Chris –
You guys. We’ll talk soon.

Thomas –
Thanks, Chris. Talk to you soon. Bye bye.