Chris Medellin –
Welcome to Breakthrough with Chris Medellin, and I am here with Arjun Dhingra. Arjun, how are you doing, man?
Arjun Dhingra –
I’m good, brother. It’s good to see you, man.
Chris Medellin –
Yes, man. I’m so excited. So we are live in Gilbert, Arizona. I was lucky enough because you had some events that you had that you were partaking in here. And I’m so glad that we got to get you to live in our studio. So this is going to be exciting. I can’t wait to talk to you, man.
Arjun Dhingra –
I appreciate it, man. It’s good to be here with you.
Chris Medellin –
Yes, man. So let me introduce, you know, my audience to who Arjun is. And Arjun, you had this effect a few years back, right around COVID, where everyone who was trying to build a brand in the mortgage space and then lending space and real estate space, you kind of just showed up out of nowhere and there was this little bit of mystery around you and I was like, Who’s this dude?
Chris Medellin –
Well-spoken, well dressed. I want to know him. And as I started to look into who you were a little bit better and find out the type of guy you were, I knew I wanted to be friends with you. And so it’s been fun getting to know you. But for those of you that don’t know Arjun, he’s a content creator.
Chris Medellin –
He’s a mortgage lender, he’s a coach, an educator, and a speaker. And I didn’t realize this, but you are also the USA co-head coach of the USA Taekwondo team. Is that right?
Arjun Dhingra –
Yet for a few more days for.
Chris Medellin –
A few, I’m.
Arjun Dhingra –
Resigning.
Chris Medellin –
Of course. That would be the title.
Arjun Dhingra –
Yeah, I’m stepping down to pass it off to somebody else. And also because I’m going to be so busy with my own family now. Yes, the right time. But we just got back from the World Championships in July. Yes. Our men’s team that I coached, the seven-member men’s team hit the pinnacle. They won the overall gold medal, which has never happened in the U.S.
Arjun Dhingra –
Oh, my gosh. This is like the perfect time to ride off into the sunset.
Chris Medellin –
This is the best time to leave while you’re on a high. And that’s the best thing. But also, man, I mean, it’s you know, I would be remiss then to mention that you were also a two-time taekwondo world champion. 27, 2014. Congratulations on that. So you are also a badass.
Arjun Dhingra –
I wouldn’t say that I was a long time ago. We’re now in 2023. Those are a long time ago. But yeah.
Chris Medellin –
I love that man. And you’re a father, a husband. You’re also actually expecting another baby on the way. So you’re going to have two girls now?
Arjun Dhingra –
I am so in my head.
Chris Medellin –
Just amazing.
Arjun Dhingra –
Without now, without question, I’m never going to have hair like yours with two daughters.
Chris Medellin –
I don’t know, man. I don’t know. I don’t know. Dad, you have great hair. That’s another thing I noticed about you. I wanted to be friends. Well, Arjun, welcome. And I think one of the things before we jump into it, I want to give you guys a heads up because we’ll actually jump into this. Arjun, you had an Instagram account, a significant amount of following you and you know, rightfully so because you’re putting out amazing content, you’re prolific in the way that you’re putting it out and putting out stuff that I’m actually entertained watching and listening to.
Chris Medellin –
And you got Shadow banned and had to start up a new account. So those of you that are listening, please go on to your Instagram right now and follow Arjun’s underscore mortgage. You’ll be extremely impressed and get a lot of education from what he’s sending out. But I love what you do because you built a brand around not just providing people with educational content, but you actually having an opinion behind it.
Chris Medellin –
And I think that’s where there’s a difference is always I can see when people are reading a script and I can see when people are talking about it from the heart and you come from the heart. And I love that part about you. But let’s talk about let’s start off with the shadow ban. That’s crazy.
Arjun Dhingra –
Yeah. So, you know, I mean, when we get into these things, it’s important to stand for something. And I don’t mean you need to be this like, icon or revolutionary, you know like there’s no Che Guevara. I know, that’s right. But you but, you know, when we talk about it as marketers, if you try and speak to the masses, you’ll connect with no one, right?
Arjun Dhingra –
Your market to everyone. You’ll end up connecting with no one. And so there are some things, you know, in my market that I got opinionated about, not in a controversial way. They were controversial topics, but to me, they felt very common sense. So for 18 months in the wake of COVID and the reopening of San Francisco, there were some systemic social issues, specifically homelessness, which is no secret.
Arjun Dhingra –
It’s known it’s in the news, and how this inability to deal with it because it is a problem. Right. And there’s a lot of compassion and empathy that’s required to deal with the problem. But I wasn’t seeing any action being taken. So like every citizen, which is why we’re in this country, we have the right to voice that displeasure.
Arjun Dhingra –
And I did it very tastefully and just said, look, I feel that this is going to have an impact on real estate because I always want to tie what’s going on in the real world back to what it is I do for a living, which is real estate mortgage financing specifically, but it’s all under the real estate umbrella.
Arjun Dhingra –
So I talked about this connection and initially it was great. It gained a lot of traction. There would be a lot of responses. People like that. So awesome. You’re speaking out against this. I feel the same way. When are they going to do something about it? And I was like, This is good. This is a productive conversation. And then would come the first community guidelines suspension.
Arjun Dhingra –
You know you violated community guidelines. You have a seven-day suspension while we review your account or review their content. But every time I’d come back, I’d see a huge drop in followers. So they were either purging followers or people were getting very upset. So clearly these are people that feel homelessness is being dealt with or they should just be, you know, running rampant, whatever the case.
Arjun Dhingra –
And after a while I just got tired of fighting it because I noticed my content was reaching fewer and fewer people and other people who had started over a lot of guys that you and I both know, including my brother, he gave me advice and just said, Look, man, just stop swimming upstream of this. Throw in the towel, just start over.
Arjun Dhingra –
You’ll be back to where you were in no time and you’ll actually have fun rebuilding it, which it has been. So that’s why I switched over. It’s been, you know, a little bit of a process to try and train everyone. Hey, go to the new account, and drop the old one. But yeah, I’m getting to put into practice all the things that I preach to people.
Arjun Dhingra –
Yes, you preach to people. Yes. I mean, and doing this the right way. So I’m having fun with it, man.
Chris Medellin –
It is such you know, it’s such an important thing to be able to build your brand around your values. And this is one of the things that if I can go back and do this all over, I would have started instead of just putting out content about, you know, mortgage or being a leader or whatever it is that I’m putting counter content on and really understood who I was and what I stood for and then backed into content based on those things.
Chris Medellin –
But it’s really hard if you have these types of community guidelines that then box you in to say you really have to stay vanilla, you know, on your social commentary, or you’re going to offend, you know, too many people. Right? And I and I think that that goes against everything that we’re about living, you know, in this country. But it is what it is.
Chris Medellin –
Because on the flip side to that, let’s talk about the upside too, you know, social media and content and that sort of thing. So I want to introduce this podcast to my listeners because, you know, we’re in the middle of a rebrand, and by the time you guys hear this, we’ll have rebranded this entire podcast to break through.
Chris Medellin –
And the reason that I changed the name from just the Chris Medine show to Breakthrough is that in life there are these moments that you that the listeners and the people go through in life where right before you have a breakthrough moment, there’s something that happens, you’re pissed off, you’re angry, you’re fed up, something happens where you’re just not willing to accept mediocrity anymore, and that pushes you to a limit that you didn’t know you can do.
Chris Medellin –
And that’s the breakthrough moment. And we’ve all had it in life. And today I want to talk about yours because, you know, there was a time that you weren’t using. You actually have a marketing major, correct? Yeah. Yeah. So there was a time in this business that you probably weren’t using that to all of its, you know, potential.
Arjun Dhingra –
And for the majority of my career, I was not using.
Chris Medellin –
And you get this opportunity now to tap into a creative side of your brain that we never got to use. I mean, mortgages, to be quite honest, are really boring, you know.
Arjun Dhingra –
Nothing sexy about it.
Chris Medellin –
It. You’re helping. But the one part that’s really cool is the fact that you get to change lives. You get to help people build generational wealth. But at the end of the day, what we do is paperwork. And now you’ve been able to add and insert this marketing capability that’s completely transformed you. So I don’t want to, you know, connect the dots that that’s what your breakthrough moment was.
Chris Medellin –
But let’s talk about that for a second. So what was your breakthrough moment in life? And went on when what happened that really drove you to take your business to the next level? Because right now, if you’re a lender, most people know who you are now.
Arjun Dhingra –
Yeah. Which I appreciate, man. And you know, I’m doing all this stuff to kind of fast forward to the end of the answer, and then I’ll. Tarantino This thing.
Chris Medellin –
Yes, let’s do it. Yeah.
Arjun Dhingra –
You know like for the same reasons you are right. Like we want to help the industry move forward and get better. So this ability to connect and, you know, do podcasts, put out content, create community, it’s been reinvigorating for all of us, right? Because before that the mortgage industry was just punch list checking and paper pushing and also just being low on the totem pole, right?
Arjun Dhingra –
We’d get yelled at by realtors and by title companies like it’s like it wears on you. It almost deflates you.
Chris Medellin –
I used to say this, but I don’t say it as much anymore, but there used to be sorry to interrupt you, but there used to be. I used to tell her. But there’s an expiration date on what we do. Nobody wants to be an originator forever. No, But now there is this ability to transform what you’re doing to help more people and do it in a way that, you know is really making an impact in lives.
Chris Medellin –
Right? And that you can journey and you could journal that you can, you know, display the journey through social media and it changes everything about what we’re doing. There’s an insert of excitement again into the industry. How did that change for you?
Arjun Dhingra –
You know, when you bring this back to like the breakthrough moment, I like to refer to this as the rocky three moments. Okay. So most people who are Rocky fans, all if you ask them what’s their favorite? Rocky Undoubtedly, always pulls out. There’s no more Rocky four, the one with the Russian right? Because it was the cool cinematography in Russia.
Arjun Dhingra –
The fight was amazing. And then Apollo died if you recall. I don’t know if you’re a Rocky fan, but my favorite was Rocky three, and it was because of a rebuild of work that he had to do. And I tell people this, that we all as professionals and as individuals, human beings, have to have rocky three moments in our life.
Arjun Dhingra –
And what that is, is where things are going great and you develop almost a false sense of security, like somehow you’re the secret sauce that’s making all this magic happen when it’s really the market. For me, that was the run-up leading to oh eight, right? We all thought we were great who was in the business. I mean, it was just easy money.
Arjun Dhingra –
Things were like anything you touch turned to gold. And that was Rocky in his career. And then he ran into this point of adversity and he lost right in fact, he was beaten badly. And for all of us in the industry that was like crushed. And then you’re scratching your head wondering, was I ever that good? Was I like I mean, it’s really deflating and it’s very reflective and it’s a very honest and brutally uncomfortable conversation you have with yourself.
Arjun Dhingra –
And so I experienced that professionally. I also experienced it athletically. That first World championship I won in 2007 when I went back to repeat it in 2012, I lost and then I had those same doubts creep in. Was I ever that good that I get lucky the first time when I’m like, All right, no, it’s the next move that’s going to define that, not this one?
Arjun Dhingra –
We’re either going to prove that this was one and then I can put myself back together again and come back bigger and better and learn from this and have it fuel me rather than define me, or it is going to define me. And it was the same with the market in oh eight. So to bring this back to mortgage in eight like afterward, in the wake of it, my brother and I Shavani wasn’t really working with us at the time, and probably for good reason.
Arjun Dhingra –
I think she was still in school. So Leland, I mean, those were dark days, you know, sitting in the office looking at each other like we don’t even have a loan product to give.
Chris Medellin –
Are you buying leads? What are you doing it?
Arjun Dhingra –
We were trying to, like, go back to our database. Yeah. Because we had had a very big book of business. The problem was they were all, all day and subprime clients that now could not buy a mortgage.
Chris Medellin –
Yeah, that’s seven years. Yeah. They had to wait.
Arjun Dhingra –
Yeah, they had to wait a long time. So like, okay, they’re all disqualified. They don’t even want some of them. Didn’t even want to talk to us. We had to be like, really careful about who we told what we did. You know, for those of you listening that remember that time, Yeah.
Chris Medellin –
You’re a used car salesman. It was. It was embarrassing. Like, you.
Arjun Dhingra –
Know, say, yeah, it was humiliating. So we, you know, we got back to grinding, but it was all we knew. I hired a mortgage coach. Our business coach was in the mortgage industry. I’m still with them today. Neil was always very good at what he did. He’s the smartest man in the industry, I always say that. And so we would just kind of stick with what we knew and somehow started putting some things back together again.
Arjun Dhingra –
We weren’t creating content. I had a social media presence just for a way of social purposes, connecting with college buddies, friends around the world, family, whatever Neil thought social media was was ridiculous. He hated it.
Chris Medellin –
This is great.
Arjun Dhingra –
He thought it was a waste of time. Like most people won’t believe this, but he thought it was where you go to waste time or have an affair or like get into trouble, you know, like so it just wasn’t any time well spent. But when the flip for us and what was really defining was when we actually started creating content because it reinvigorated us.
Arjun Dhingra –
So it was a big breakthrough moment. But I had another like really, you know, kind of conflicting point where I almost quit. And it was right when I made the decision to start creating content.
Chris Medellin –
That’s too.
Arjun Dhingra –
Break the building. That was the real breakthrough moment. It was five years ago.
Chris Medellin –
Okay.
Arjun Dhingra –
So I’m 15 years, you know, 16 years into the business. I’ve got a lot of experience. I get stood up for a coffee meeting with an agent who’s only been in the business at that point for like three years. He’s still in the business today and he doesn’t know that he’s the fuel of my story. One of these days, I’ll tell him.
Arjun Dhingra –
But like, I got to the meeting early and I said, Hey, man, what do you want? I’m here, you know, I’ll order your coffee. He just says I’m not going to make it like just dismissed me. Like the way, you cancel an Uber driver. It’s like, wow. Okay. Hours before that, I’d been yelled at by two agents on something for a deal that was going to close on time.
Arjun Dhingra –
But they were convinced it wasn’t and then just decided to yell at me. I had another client cancel on me and lost another deal to a big bank, which happens a lot in San Francisco. And I just felt like, man, maybe the universe is telling me something. I got to quit this thing or take my just take my energy and put it elsewhere.
Arjun Dhingra –
So I called up my business coach and said, Hey, Kai, what do you think? Panic is the universe telling me to quit? This thing is like, Look, I know you’re good at what you do. You know you’re good at what you do. The clients you worked with know you’re good at what you do, but does anyone else? And the answer was no.
Arjun Dhingra –
He said, If I Google you, what are we going to find? Only stuff about your taekwondo history, which is cool. It’s not going to make somebody want to get a mortgage with you or learn from you or trust you with their money. So he said, I don’t know what the answer is because he didn’t answer social.
Chris Medellin –
Yeah, because we didn’t really think of him. Yeah, I think you were a bit of a pioneer at the time.
Arjun Dhingra –
I know too really. I don’t even know if it was an actress. You’re too kind, man.
Chris Medellin –
Well, no, I mean, I think. I think that you know, back in the day, like back in 2020 when we were there were not a lot of people. I mean, people were Yeah, there was a picture at you know, at the sign, we just closed a deal. But really storytelling and providing value in the content. I think you guys were pioneers in what you did with that.
Chris Medellin –
I mean, that was, that was a significant change. And, you know, when when I realized, well, there’s other people doing it and they’re way better than me, you know, this is where I was like, I want to be friends with them, want to learn what they’re doing, what’s going through their mind, how are they creating content? But to watch that, yeah, I think you guys own that.
Chris Medellin –
You guys were pioneers in really the shift in, you know, changing the way a loan officer is producing content and, you know, changing the way that we approach the business.
Arjun Dhingra –
So, yeah, no, I just, I really, I feel like people need I wanted like change the narrative on how they view us as originals because for the longest time in the whole hierarchy of the time, everyone involved in real estate transaction, most people put the lender somewhere near the insurance broker. Yeah. Deal with a level of importance in how they’re treated and what role they play in this.
Chris Medellin –
This is not to interrupt you again, but this is what blows my mind because we’re going to get back to your story. I want to hear the rest of it. But like to that to that end, right, you would call an agent and they would say, you know, well, how much can you give me for my marketing?
Chris Medellin –
Yeah. And I remember thinking, like, when did we give the money? We, we, we the most important part of the transaction is giving the money in the transaction.
Arjun Dhingra –
But they would never tell you that.
Chris Medellin –
They’ll never tell you that. But that is the truth of it. Right. So for me, do I want somebody to pay for my marketing or do I want them to just be really good at getting me the money? Yeah, I want them to just be really good at giving me the money if I’m a realtor. And for me as a lender, if I’m working with a realtor, I want them to be really good at finding a house and getting my client the best deal.
Chris Medellin –
And by the way, there’s a lot that isn’t that great at that either, you know, like, you know, so so when you think about it, this, this hierarchy is insane to me because, you know like I’ll have lows that will sometimes I’ll see a chain email like, hey, who has a contractor? They come and fix this place.
Chris Medellin –
I’m like, No, no, no. Like, that’s not our role. And we’re here just to give the money. Your agent is. That’s what the agents do. They’re handling the property. We’re handling the money. But we get involved in something that happens now. We’re the bad guys, right? So you got to kind of. But we’re always trying to fix everything because that’s our motive in trying to, you know, secure the deal.
Chris Medellin –
But to your point, we get dismissed a lot. And I don’t know where that shifted, but I think what you’re doing and the following and the tribe that you and Neal have created with realtors is really shifting the game on the value of having a good lender.
Arjun Dhingra –
I think, you know if you become a better marketer, which is what this whole game is about, whether you’re a real estate agent or your lender as the best marketer wins. That’s right. The best marketing wins. If you don’t believe that, just look at the gray Goose story. Everyone perceives Gray Goose as the best vodka in the world.
Arjun Dhingra –
It’s actually shit vodka. It is. It’s graded number three or four on the list of all vodkas and like, taste tests and like, yes, vodka, perfectionists that understand it. Belvedere is number one, kettle one is number two. Gray goose is three or four. But why is it perceived as the best? Because it’s marketed beautifully.
Chris Medellin –
And it’s a great name.
Arjun Dhingra –
It’s an amazing name and a great rap song. It’s Bottles Goose. The goose gets loose. You know, its rap video is the branding of the bottle. Like those huge, gigantic bottles that they bring out to you at nightclubs and bars. And so you’re like, it’s positioned to look like the best. So what’s the best marketer, right? And whoever is going be the best marketer is going to win in this game.
Arjun Dhingra –
Those of us in the industry and if you want to change the perception of the yellow, which is a mission of mine and I know it’s a mission of yours, right, to bring respect because we are without a doubt, hey, this is not to offend any realtors. This is just to give you a reality check. We are the most important quotient in the whole game, no question about it.
Arjun Dhingra –
Without us, there is no deal. It’s the glue. It’s. It’s the unsung hero in every transaction. Is the lender, right? The agents? Yes. What you do is important. But let’s also put some perspective on it and realize that all of this one plus one needs to equal three magic, which is hard to put logic right. We have to come up with that.
Chris Medellin –
You have to come up with it.
Arjun Dhingra –
We have to figure it out. So this is important. But for all of us that get good at the marketing side of it, because you know who’s not good at marketing or real estate agents. And for our realtor partners who always have thought of us as a source of cash, pay me for my Zillow leads and maybe I’ll give you the leads.
Arjun Dhingra –
I’ll tell you I’m going to give them to you. But the reality is I’m probably going to give it to my guy at the bank because he’s not allowed to pay for them. But you are and you’re a sucker, so I’ll give you one, but I’m going to give him five like it’s a terrible game. I fell prey to that.
Arjun Dhingra –
Now, when I haven’t been asked it in a while, I’m kind of like missing the question, you know, I wish they’d ask me because I always just say I don’t pay to play anymore. But what I will do is more for your business in a 30-minute chat, and I won’t even talk to you about rates or products, or services.
Arjun Dhingra –
But I’m going to do more for your business than any lender you’ve ever talked to. That’s how I got your attention. And it’s because of this that every realtor knows they need to be doing video. Every realtor knows they need to have a brand and be online. Their brokers tell them it, and their colleagues are terrible, but they don’t know how no one’s teaching them.
Arjun Dhingra –
So if you yourself as a lender, you want to be the most valuable commodity in your market. Get good at this stuff, get into it, figure it out, develop some nuance, become a student of the game, and then teach it to your one percenters and you will build in so much loyalty and such great, long, long-lasting relationship and currency in that relationship.
Arjun Dhingra –
And it’ll make you an indispensable growth partner. You won’t be thought of as my lender partner. You’ll be my indispensable growth partner, which is a big shift. Rene talks about that. Rodriguez Right. And we both know I’m willing that’s how you want to be thought of as a lender. So that’s my mission is to change that game.
Arjun Dhingra –
And I hope every lender that’s out there that you and I are both in contact with kind of accepts that as well.
Chris Medellin –
Oh, I think so. But we also, as lenders have to provide that value. You have to have a microphone. You have to be able to you know, this is what I trained with my team is like if you can teach your agent how to get out of their mind and get into, you know, a space where they’re comfortable doing content that could transform their business and you’re the person they’re always going to remember.
Chris Medellin –
They got them there right? So let’s go back. I want to hear this. So you’re about to quit. You’re so pissed off at that moment that this guy blows you off like an Uber driver. So what? What happened?
Arjun Dhingra –
So I called my coach. She says, you know, nobody knows that you’re good at what you do. I don’t know what the answer is, but you got to figure out how to fix that. Okay? I start scratching my head, start talking to some people that were influential, that were bloggers, you know, they had and then they were creating some kind of business online that visibility.
Arjun Dhingra –
And then Neil and I went to a Gary Vee conference in Miami. Okay, 2021 is what it was called.
Chris Medellin –
Oh, man, I remember that. I remember that.
Arjun Dhingra –
Yeah, it was a big shifting moment for a lot of people.
Chris Medellin –
And it wasn’t in 2021, this was.
Arjun Dhingra –
Like it was in 2019.
Chris Medellin –
Right. But it’s Yeah. So it was like basically the future.
Arjun Dhingra –
And Gary’s answer as to why he called it that name and why the four industry groups were there was because it was auto insurance sorry, insurance brokers, auto dealership owners, mortgage, and real estate. Yes. So mortgage and real estate and insurance made sense, but auto didn’t make a lot like what? This is kind of a hodgepodge of people.
Arjun Dhingra –
So somebody raised their hand when Gary opened the event and said, Gary, why these four? And he goes, It’s really easy. It’s because you’re all fucked. Yeah, all your industries are fucked. Unless you guys do something right now. Okay, Talk about a hook. Right? I’m not getting your attention. I was like, okay, I’m all ears. Like, tell me what you’re going to tell me.
Arjun Dhingra –
Yes. And so for the next several hours, through panel discussions, Gary did a few keynotes and even closed it out. There was a host of other great speakers. It was basically about becoming, you know, the digital mayor of your city, being a brand first and a media company first, comma. Now you’re a lender, it’s not lender first and then everything else second.
Arjun Dhingra –
It’s like I need to think of myself differently. So the light bulb went off and I was still trying to put some dots together. Neil was actually way ahead of this because Neil came into social with the intent only to connect with people and find a purpose behind it and give some value and really monetized. And I had had, you know, kind of a lax social presence.
Arjun Dhingra –
You’re more.
Chris Medellin –
Of a social, you were doing it for social purposes.
Arjun Dhingra –
Doing it for social services, which was what everyone was there for, right? So I hadn’t really figured out how to like to flip that, but Neil was doing it with great success right out of the gates because he was really determined. He’s extremely intelligent and he didn’t have any other frames of reference, whereas I had the laziness of years of just having an account there.
Arjun Dhingra –
So I took those audiences for granted. I took those connections for granted and then started following his lead in some ways and creating content, coming up with ideas, trying to give value, executing it, and distributing the content at a much slower pace than what he was doing, which is why his trajectory was straight up. Mine was a little slower and bumpier.
Arjun Dhingra –
Then I started outsourcing some things, but it was my breakthrough moment was that events and recognizing now that I’m going to become the best-known commodity in my market, I don’t care if they all do business with me, they’re all going to know who I am. That’s it. That’s all I care about. Because if enough people know, eventually the business will happen.
Arjun Dhingra –
So I made a commitment to create content and put out stuff for one year and not expect anything. That’s the reality is for two years I didn’t get anything, which is a whole nother story because I was doing it wrong. I was thinking only in terms of what I wanted to speak about rather than what the end user or the consumer wanted to hear about.
Arjun Dhingra –
Once I made that switch, then everything changed.
Chris Medellin –
Well, that’s a really good point, because so Neil and I would talk and we would have these conversations at night, probably in 2020, 2021. What are you doing? What do you get going on? You know, like just kind of trying to understand where the next phase was. And I think we recognize that we were both doing content. But the one difference that Neil had and, you know, I don’t know that I’ve ever come to this because I in my head, I think I had it all figured out at the time, was I wanted to be known.
Chris Medellin –
Let me back that up. I wanted to put out more content than anyone in my role in the industry, Right, Number one? And number two, I wanted anybody in the industry who did mortgages to know who I was that was my goal. Like if I can put out content before anybody else was, then they’ll at least know who I am.
Chris Medellin –
So if I pick up the phone and I do a cold call to and lo, they’re like, I know that dude. We’ll talk to him, you know because I saw his content. So it’s really about a conversion mechanism for me where you guys did it differently and it sounds like Neil did it differently. And then you came along was he thought broader?
Chris Medellin –
He had an avatar. He had a he went after millennials. I was going after an industry and he went after a segment of a demographic that was so broad that he captured everybody I wanted, everybody you wanted, and our agents on top of that. Right. So he captured everybody. And I was floored by it.
Chris Medellin –
I was like, that is brilliant. And now it’s back up of what’s my brand? What are my values, what is my content going to look like? And does that mirror who my audience is? And then it’s that to create content, to add those things. But it’s hard, man. And so you’ve seen, you know, so much success with this, what you said you had your ups and downs, you shifted your message and things changed.
Chris Medellin –
Talk about what that was so.
Arjun Dhingra –
I spent the first few years creating content that I wanted to talk about that I felt comfortable talking about that made me feel intelligent or that I just really felt well versed on. But unless it’s what people actually want to hear about, it’s not going to connect, right? So I’ve got this expression I use when it comes to content creation if you’re a restaurant owner and people come in wanting hamburgers, don’t serve them burritos.
Arjun Dhingra –
They’re asking for hamburgers. Just give them what they want. So when I started putting on the hats and the ears of the end users and saying, okay, what are these people want to hear about? And researching those topics, polling people asking through email newsletters and whatever, gave me my content ideas which made my creativity curve way, way less steep enough to reinvent the wheel, have.
Chris Medellin –
To reinvent the wheel.
Arjun Dhingra –
Just tell me again, we want hamburgers, So throw away all the Mexican food. You don’t need any of it. Serve them hamburgers. And then it switched because then the content started connecting with more people. There was way more engagement. And then I was like, Wow, It took me two years to figure this out. So I always love sharing that.
Arjun Dhingra –
I see it every time I get the opportunity because I want a lender out there not to avoid that mistake I mean, for the first two years. And hopefully, it saves you time, too. But, you know, figuring out what people want to know about, you know, going online, answering the public is a great resource that I use to just come up with topics and see like, what are people searching for?
Arjun Dhingra –
But we have to do that because then we’re otherwise we’re tone-deaf, right? As an industry or as thought leaders of people, right? Like if you were speaking to people on this podcast, but it was nothing of what they wanted to hear about, this thing just kind of vanishes 100%. Yeah, well, that’s really important.
Chris Medellin –
So that’s really it. I mean, and, you know, the goal ultimately is I wanted people there’s an aloe right now because your moment happened right before the market really where we went on a run for the market with the market and being in that moment there’s Ella’s literally today that might be listening to this that are at that moment like a man should I just get out of this?
Chris Medellin –
Should I just, you know, throw in the towel? Go, go do something else. I had a guy who gave me a he was an Uber driver and I love my own drivers. I’m like, you know, I always have conversations with them, want to know what their story is, too? And this one in particular guy was like, Yeah, I was.
Chris Medellin –
I was a lender and back in, okay, crushing it, you know, and, and then it started to be a thing. I probably have had ten Uber drivers that were lenders in oh eight. And what scares me is that if people don’t take control of the situation that they have right now and find solutions to their problems and become marketers, they’re going to be doing the same thing.
Chris Medellin –
They’re going to be in a different industry that doesn’t have the upside potential to do what they do today. Yeah, in another industry there are people like we lost a loan officer that I think when they left they were saying, you know, I, I only made like 30,000 last year and I’m like, that’s not a way to live.
Chris Medellin –
You know, you’re smart. Here’s what I want you to know, my grandmother, and my mother doing their deals with you because you’re smart, but just nobody knows.
Arjun Dhingra –
Right.
Chris Medellin –
What you do and how good you are. And, you know, it’s unfortunate because I’ve been talking about this for some time, but the industry legends, there are these industry legends in every market that people go to if they can’t get their deal done. They’re like encyclopedias. They know how to do it. They figure it out. But they’re going to go away because eventually, a computer is going to be able to do and figure out how to make deals work.
Chris Medellin –
Yeah, and I think that’s what Gary was saying. If you don’t build a value proposition, Right? It’s funny you say that age in 2021 is what changed you because that’s the sole reason that I created a podcast was from that I listen to the Daily he posted that conference specific to mortgage and said you know become the digital mayor of your market and you know and then it’s evolved since then but I think that’s what it’s all about a man it’s really how can you shift and inspire somebody to come out of their shell and start to market in a way that you know, is going to connect with your audience?
Chris Medellin –
So tell me about you. Where do you take this next I mean, you have you’re very ambitious, you’re extremely successful, what you’re doing. You’ve had your breakthrough moments. And by the way, you’re probably going to have another one coming up here soon to take you even to the next level. But where do you want to get to?
Arjun Dhingra –
It’s still evolving right now. You know, we put on some events which you came and supported, which I appreciate, but absolutely that was a big risk and bet on myself too, you know, at the time of a market downturn to bring in Ryan Cervantes.
Chris Medellin –
He couldn’t have it couldn’t have been a more perfect time to do that event. And he couldn’t have been the better speaker to do it. And then.
Arjun Dhingra –
He was but.
Chris Medellin –
He was right on point with it.
Arjun Dhingra –
He was, yeah. And it’s still having a ripple effect through our market and, you know, that kind of told me, like building a community like this on a big scale and putting together things that help move the needle inspire, motivate, elevate us, and just get people thinking differently is where I like spending my time, right? Like I like doing that on the coaching side with the athletes I work with now that I’m not going to be doing that like I feel like this is easy.
Chris Medellin –
Easy pivot absolute time-wise.
Arjun Dhingra –
So I feel like, you know, LFG Energy, which was the entity that put on that event, which kind of just happened. And now, you know, we did another one. It was called The Social Boss Lady just a few weeks ago and was an all-female panel. Another sold-out crowd. Tremendous value and insights with some of the best marketers and lenders and realtors that were in the space.
Arjun Dhingra –
And I feel like now this is what I kind of want to do. So I want to evolve. LFG Energy creator Society, which is another more sophisticated way of calling it a mastermind, you know, and create more and more community to just help people within our industry collaborate with guys like you that are also doing the same thing as thought leaders and propelling things forward and just make us all better.
Arjun Dhingra –
Yeah, that’s what fuels me now. So that’s the next thing.
Chris Medellin –
I think as leaders in the industry. One of the biggest things that I always go back to when on I’m second guessing something, you know, you’ve been in this situation where the deals aren’t coming in the way that they need to. People have not been inspired the way that they need to be. You see, morale is low. Every time I get there, my one go-to move is to bring people together.
Chris Medellin –
And the more you can bring people together, then there’s synergy that starts. And so take.
Arjun Dhingra –
The focus is off you.
Chris Medellin –
Right? Without a doubt. Right. And then, you know, but there’s something to be learned because, within a group of people, there’s somebody winning. And if I can learn from that person that’s winning, it’s what it’s all about. But people who are successful, people who are breaking through, people who are taking their business, their careers, and their income to the next level are masterminds.
Chris Medellin –
They’re in societies that are helping them connect with people that are ten steps ahead of where they want to be. And so the big shift for me was I remember a moment in my career where I don’t think I was in a quit, but I needed to make a change. And I realized that I was hanging out with the wrong people.
Chris Medellin –
I was hanging out with the people that were negative. I was hanging out with the people that didn’t own and didn’t have a solution for their problems. They were entitled. And I remember calling somebody and they said, I don’t have a like a company problem. I have like a mortgage problem. This is a mortgage industry issue that we’re in.
Chris Medellin –
And just like that, all my issues went away because I was like, Everybody’s going to this. It’s up to me to figure out how I’m going to take it to the next level. And I think, you know, right now is the best time to be a community, to create communities within our industry, to help those people that are struggling.
Chris Medellin –
And, you know, I’ve never been to an event like the Ford event and to like your event where, you know, you put on this LFG event that I was literally just taking notes. It was, you know, a masterclass on how to survive and how to be different and how to know that the markets are going to come down.
Chris Medellin –
And it’s really how you approach it that’s going to determine your success. Those things were life-changing for me. And it’s weird because you’re like, I think I got this, but you need that inspiration at times. So I want to see you continue to do this, man because this is going to be, you know, a game changer for the industry.
Chris Medellin –
So you want to really focus on more events and community events. I mean, community involvement situations.
Arjun Dhingra –
Yeah. And also just, you know, I mean, that’s all in the that’s part of the brand, of course, and then expand, you know, like I want to we’re obviously always looking to grow with the right people like organization, grow our efforts in other markets to help reach and impact people and do things with a financial literacy forward-facing approach.
Arjun Dhingra –
Okay. Because we recognize that internally within our company and I know you guys feel the same way, and most of the other companies do that. There is a big gap in financial literacy here.
Arjun Dhingra –
If we can make people more comfortable with conversations around money, and have a better understanding of money and debt as an instrument and as a tool, we can empower them and we can change lives. We can create like generational impact.
Chris Medellin –
That’s it.
Arjun Dhingra –
And that’s the power behind what we do. But no one ever shares this. Like we have to get well-versed on it ourselves first and then second step into this microphone because there’s an audience out there you may not realize it and speak. And Neil’s got a great phrase to that. I love to take and use. Like if you don’t share it, you’re being selfish.
Chris Medellin –
That’s it.
Arjun Dhingra –
You’re being selfish. Yeah. You know, you might think you’re just being self-conscious by not sharing it, but you’re actually being selfish.
Chris Medellin –
That’s it.
Arjun Dhingra –
Nobody wants to use it. I don’t want to say it. No. If you’ve got something valuable to share and you know it’s valuable, you better speak it up. Because it could impact one person, it could impact a few, and don’t be selfish, share it.
Chris Medellin –
So I’ll give you the story that comes to mind when whenever I hear Neil say that I used to love going to dealerships and wheeling and dealing with the car guys, right? And so by the time I got to, I would beat them down so hard. But by the time I got to the finance guys, they were just like, get this guy out of here, you know, and I would get mad because they wouldn’t offer me, you know, the shit that they give you at the end.
Chris Medellin –
It’s like, you want a warranty. Do you want the, like the coat, the clear coat stuff? Do you want that, You know, tires, whatever. Right. Do I want to be sold on this stuff right? Like because I, I’m, I just want to be sold. They wouldn’t sell me because they were like, this guy has already beat us down.
Chris Medellin –
We’re not going to get it. And so I’d ask them, Why are you not offering me this stuff? Because it’s literally on their desk to offer so they don’t forget. It’s like a laminate. And that’s the problem is I think people build a narrative in their head of what other people want or don’t want. And therefore that creates their behavior.
Chris Medellin –
And I think that the truth of the matter is, is that there’s somebody right now that needs your help and they have no idea that you could help them. And the other thing is where it changed for me is my mother was doing a deal with somebody. She was doing home equity, and she said, we have your dad.
Chris Medellin –
And I just we’re getting home equity so that we can do some renovations. And I said, When are they going to start the renovation? The next week. And so when did you apply? And she said Today, we’ll have the money by tomorrow. I said You won’t have the money by tomorrow. And she said, Do you already have these guys?
Chris Medellin –
Like, yeah, they’re lined up, but they’re never going to get that money. Bye bye bye next week or whenever you wanted to do it. And I said, Why don’t you call me and ask me to say, Oh, Chris, I don’t even know what you do. And it hit me. I was like If my mom doesn’t know what I’m doing.
Chris Medellin –
That’s bad. Then the person cutting my hair doesn’t know what I’m doing. Then, you know, my friends don’t know what I’m doing, right? I thought being a private person was, you know, a thing and where that got in. But when it shifted for me, it all changed. Now I’m doing all my friend’s deals. I’m doing, you know, I’m doing, you know, and I’m like, they come to me for advice.
Chris Medellin –
And it’s like, yeah, you get a bad deal? We’ll take it from here. Do you know? But I think you have changed our industry. You’ve made an impact, if you will, and I hope you accept that and embrace that and know that there’s a confidence level that you got to have around that because you’re continuing to shift it. I love what you’re doing.
Chris Medellin –
And for the people that are listening, I really want you guys to go out and follow our vision mortgage and make sure that you give him my man some love. What else do you want to share with the audience, man? Well, I got you.
Arjun Dhingra –
Know, I will share the story of how you and I met, which was that, you know, Neil’s first forward event. Yes. In Vegas. You come up to me wearing white shoes and you and I have this love for fashion, right? And white shoes and leather jackets. You know. Did you get that jacket? I’m asking you, where’d you get these shoes?
Arjun Dhingra –
So we started joking with each other. But you had this infectious, magnetic-like aura.
Chris Medellin –
Thanks, man.
Arjun Dhingra –
And. And then I heard your last name. I’m like Medellin. And so I was, like, really animated and, like, very, like, just fired up when I say the name, which I love. So every time I see you, man, it brings a smile to me. So I appreciate the friendship and connection that I’ve seen over these years. Yes. And I’m always rooting for you, man, and anything you do and want to support it.
Arjun Dhingra –
So that’s one thing I share, you know, for all the audience that’s out there. Like, not only is this a great podcast, but the man behind the microphone thank you is really a force that I have tremendous respect for and I industry and I think everything puts out is just pure selfless value.
Chris Medellin –
So thank you.
Arjun Dhingra –
For doing it, man. You’re doing it. But no, I’ll just say look for our industry. These are it’s a challenging time. Is it the worst time? No. For those of us that lived through it, those were dark days. I don’t want to minimize what we’re going through because when you don’t have another frame of reference.
Arjun Dhingra –
This is tough, right? For me and comparing it to 2008 this is nothing for you. It’s something. And while I’m not minimizing it, I also want to put it back into perspective that this is a little bit of a lull and a tight moment in the market. But if you focus on all your own fundamentals and work, take this time to make yourself better.
Arjun Dhingra –
I understand we got to find the next deal because we got bills to pay. And for many people in the industry, which is totally normal, every market cycle they made a lot of money, and then they increased their lifestyle to match that money. And now that the money’s not there, there is immense day-to-day stress on how to maintain this lifestyle, which is hard to do.
Arjun Dhingra –
Take it as a learning lesson so that you never do it again, because these shifts that we’re having in the market are not a matter of if they happen. It’s always a matter of when they come. They’re cyclical, things go up, and things go down. That’s just the way economies work. So live within your means next time around for sure.
Arjun Dhingra –
If you already were, then good job because you obviously learned something or somebody taught it to you and just focus on making yourself better, hone your craft, get better at your message, figure out what value it is you bring your own respective markets and focus on putting out that message. The deals will come. We’re not that far away from another little shift in our favor whether it’s to lower rates or a little bit more inventory, things will move.
Arjun Dhingra –
Plus also don’t discount this. You know, a good half million agents and lenders are exiting the industry. Yes. Over the course of this quarter and next quarter, there will be less competition. And yes, the pie is a little bit smaller now and so is the market share. But that pie is about to expand once we get a little bit lower rates and more homes come on the market or you’re going to have less competition.
Arjun Dhingra –
So if you plant your seeds right now and you do your work, you can come out the other side of this, which we’re not far off from now. We’re talking maybe a matter of months, months. And you will just you’ll not only have a head start, but you’ll also have a lot of legs underneath you, without a doubt. Just.
Arjun Dhingra –
Just focus on yourself. Don’t worry. This is a temporary thing. Don’t stress or try to minimize it and just get better. Focus on getting better.
Chris Medellin –
I can’t agree more. I cannot agree more. And I’m going to add this to it. Hang out with people that inspire you. Hang out with people that are a few steps ahead of you and that is going to keep you in the game. If you’re right now in a circle of people that are down, then you’re going to be down.
Chris Medellin –
If you want to hang out with people that are winning and you want to win, then surround yourself with people. And by the way, man, I would love to be a part of your society because I think that the more we work together as a group, we can continue to shift this industry and really change how the community looks at lenders.
Chris Medellin –
Yes, And I think you guys have already started a head start with our you already have a head start on how you’re doing that. So I’m proud of the work you’re doing, man, and I’m glad we’re friends. So thank you for being on this podcast, brother. And you guys make sure that you are listening and watching and checking out everything that our June underscore mortgage is doing.
Chris Medellin –
I appreciate you being here, brother.
Arjun Dhingra –
Thank you, Chris. I appreciate you, too, man.
Chris Medellin –
All right. This is a breakthrough. You guys have a great day.
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